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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK...here's the deal. I recently sold my 2001 Formula 6-speed with lots of mods because I was tired of driving a car who's basic underpinnings had been around since 1982 with the introduction of the 3rd gen. Camaro/Firebird twins. It felt like a tank, handled like a tank, but was VERY quick. One day I was driving through a local VW dealer in August and a Mojave Beige GTI caught my eye and I drove it and I liked it.
To make a long story short, I ended up questioning them about the upcomming 24V VR6/6-speed combo and they denied the whole thing and basically made me sound like some sort of lunitic or compulsive liar.
I kept telling myself I was going to wait for the new VR6/6speed, but after reading this board, the current VR6 seems to be a dud when it comes to output/upgrades. Though I will be finding a different dealer, I'm new to the whole VW thing and have a lot of questions for everyone.
1. I know similar questions have been beaten like a dead horse, but I want to know what kind of money it would take to get the 1.8T to outgun the new VR6's predicted 201hp (excluding NOS)? $500, $1000? More?
2. Could you build a reliable 1.8T that could turn high 13's and not be afraid to drive it everyday?
3. Do all GTI's come with the dorky "wood" shifter?
4. Will the 6-speed be available with the 1.8T when it becomes available with the VR6?
5. I know modding the new VR6 is all just speculation, but with what seem to be lackluster results with the current VR6, is a high-13 second VR6 a pipedream (other than the $4500 Z supercharger)?
6. What is a good starting point to rid the GTI of its Buick-like handling?
Thanks,
Nick Sparks
 

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Re: Newbie with lots of MKIV GTI questions (sir_not_appearing)

Uh dude you can make a 13second 1.8t daily driver standing your head, blindfolded, while hog tied. All it takes is 3 bolt ons and the removal of your rear seat. CAI, 3 inch Forced Motion (HAS TO BE FORCED MOTION) turbo back exhaust and a Garret chip.
 

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Re: Newbie with lots of MKIV GTI questions (sir_not_appearing)

did you come over from camaroz28.com? i remember there being someone stating that they were getting rid of their f-body and getting a gti. about your questions, i am kinda a noob myself to the whole vw thing, heck, i dont even have one yet! however, i do know that all of the gtis with the vr6s come with the wood trim, and i think the 6 speed will only be available with the 24v vr6, and the 1.8t will come with a 5 speed manual or tiptronic. i could be wrong about that though. good luck to ya! i am waiting for the 24v myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Newbie with lots of MKIV GTI questions (kenny301)

Yes, I used to post on CamaroZ28.com and was a frequent poster on f-body.com. After having a '99 and an '01 Formula back to back, I got tired of the second one fairly quickly. I think the color was what really did it in. My first one was a 1-year only "Medium Blue Metallic" and I loved it. The '01 was "Sunset Orange". More like "Orangish-brown".
I started looking for something sporty and usable and turned to the VW's. I would love to have a BMW 330ci, but I guess we all have a right to our dreams
.
 

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Re: Newbie with lots of MKIV GTI questions (kenny301)

Nick,
This is just my opinion. I have lurked here for a bit of time. Might as well share my opinions, eh? I have not tried most of what I about to suggest. Most of the modifications will probably let the dealer void your warranty.
The new 2002 GTI has a hybrid K03 turbo. It is a cross between the first generation MK4 K03 Turbo and the Audi TT K04. It is currently rated at 180hp at the crank You mention the 201hp of the 24v VR6 which is estimated crank HP, it is pretty easy to beat that.
1. Chip it (~$400). 3 inch downpipe(~$300). 3 inch exhaust (I have heard good things about Forced Motion. It is relatively quiet and performs as advertised). Change the clutch to 228mm (VR6 spec with uprated disc. Stock is 220mm.)
There. You have exceeded the 24v VR6's estimated HP and Torque. How much? I dunno but a 2002 with a chip is about 210HP and 245 ft/lbs. The downpipe and exhaust is going to add even more(quite a bit).
2. Yep. Email Billy Tylaska. His website at Dubspeed Racing is here and here He has a VERY fast 1.8T. He is running in the low 12s
3. No. Only the GTI GLX comes with the 'dorky' wood. I am not sure about the 2002 models, though. I understand there is no GLX for 2002.
4. It appears from everything I have seen the 6-speed is going to be available with the VR6 and the Beetle Sport (1.8T) to start with. The 6-speed is a bolt on from the aforementioned cars.
5. Don't know.
6. Depends on how much you want to spend. The cheapest method is to add a rear swaybar(~$250). Then the price goes up. Change the dampeners(~400). Change the springs with dampners (~$800 complete kit). Coilover setup is the most expensive off-the-shelf item (~$1500).
I have done the chip, 2.5" Cat-back exhaust and rear swaybar. The chip made a huge difference for my car. It went from 150HP to 190HP and 155ft/lbs to 240ft/lbs! (from other similarly equipped car dynos) The exhaust only adds some HP and torque to car. The swaybar makes a HUGE difference in how the car handles. I have 15" wheels and stock suspension. I recommend at least 16" wheels (I believe the 2002 does come with 16" wheels).
Hope that helps, Nick.
 

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Re: Newbie with lots of MKIV GTI questions (sir_not_appearing)

cool. i am sorta a regular at the fbody sites, i decided to look for a gti instead of a formula. its easy so make a fbody fast(er) but it takes a little more skill (and or money) to get a car with a smaller engine that fast, and i like a challenge.
 

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Re: Newbie with lots of MKIV GTI questions (sir_not_appearing)

quote:[HR][/HR]
To make a long story short, I ended up questioning them about the upcomming 24V VR6/6-speed combo and they denied the whole thing and basically made me sound like some sort of lunitic or compulsive liar. [HR][/HR]​
It has been reported that this will happen but it is not in paper in the US dealers yet so it is possible it will not happen. I want it to happen because I am waiting to order one, but for sure the jetta will come in a GLi with 6spd and 24V engine. Price not yet determined.

quote:[HR][/HR]
I kept telling myself I was going to wait for the new VR6/6speed, but after reading this board, the current VR6 seems to be a dud when it comes to output/upgrades. Though I will be finding a different dealer, I'm new to the whole VW thing and have a lot of questions for everyone.
[HR][/HR]​
it is not a dud......the 1.8T has mods waiting because it is cheeper and thus sells more...it has a turbo so there is a lot of available and unused HP in stock form, Audi has the same engine so those products have been out for a while also....
The VR6 is a very good engine...you just can't mod it with bolt ons and get the same HP. You can get that HP out of a VR6 but not with bolt ons. I personally think that the "performance" of the VR6 engine beats out the 1.8T in feel and driveability but that is a personal preference deal. Billy T has a good setup...you have to ask him about reliability. As for the general 1.8T tuning group I hear a lot of complaints about reliability under heavy modding Audi as well as VW.
With the VR6 you can get it bored and do a big valve head and P&P job with some aggressive cams and you are talking about a beast that really doesn't belong in the same general playing field as the modded 1.8T. Again this is my opinion and I don't want to debate my reasoning because no one will ever hear the end of it.
Bottom line if you want high HP, reliability and smooth driveability you are shelling out big bucks. with the VR you have to know what you are doing but the rewards are emense. With the 1.8T you can just bolt and swap to your hearts content but choose your parts wisely and be prepared for some trouble.
1. Honestly it is easy to mod a 1.8T to be more HP than the stock 24V VR6. It will not ever sound or drive the same so this is an opinion question. Initital bolt on mods for the VR will not give the same gains but it is possible witht he change of trim level you can build a vr for around the same price as a nicely equiped 1.8T if that is the case then the 1.8T looses its cost advantage and the whole game changes. If you are going to high HP on either car budget around the same total cash and plan to do most of it at once. With the VR you have to do this but with the 1.8T you only should do it this way so that all the mods work well together and don't put stress on the wrong part. Ultimately once you start modding the 1.8T you will need to buy one more part and then 1 more part to make that one work and then one more part to alieviate the bottleneck and so on down the line.

2. This really depends on how you do it and what you like to drive every day...the 1.8T is almost better in this field because of the turbo spooling lets you drive under the rpm band that give high HP and still have a car that get decent gas mileage.
3. In mid year 2002? None of them do....that was GLX trim level and that no longer exists. There are some 2002 12V VR6s and even those seem to come without wood these days...
4. No.
5. No...read above....you can also get a turbo even a stage 1 from matrix will get you going.
6. Carefully plan suspension mods.....tune the car to your driving style...there are many different concepts on how to best do this. I personally suggest coilovers if you are going to get serious with autox and want to try to weight balance the car. You will need to change stock shocks and springs no matter what. Sway bars and strut bars are a personal preference deal... motor mounts are a good thing...better bushings here and there...those sort of things...
 
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