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Discussion Starter #1
What I'm referring to in particular are vehicle offerings from manufacturers.

I think it goes without saying that living in North America can be quite disappointing from the perspective of a car buyer, especially one who has a particular interest in cars. I've often heard around here how manufacturers "cater to the masses" and "Americans like conservative designs", some people aren't car people, and whatever else. I honestly don't think that argument holds merit anymore.

It's been known for a long time that a car is usually the second largest purchase you make after your home. I highly doubt the majority of car buyers do so without at least a considerable amount of research into what they're buying.

What I also found interesting is many reviewers on YouTube seem to criticize exactly what auto manuf. do in order to cater to our market. The NMS Passat floats like a Cadillac, the backlash the MK6 Jetta recieved over being cheap, that MY 2012 Civic that underwent an emergency facelift because of how crap it was. They're even stating how X option isn't available in our market, but available in others, how this car only has one engine option but 5 in Europe, so on and so forth. Why the hell is this okay?

So it's obvious we as a market aren't blindfully purchasing cars. This whole cheap interior, bland driving dynamics, limited engine choices doesn't really seem to be flying here...so why do they keep doing it?

I'm moving to the UK soon (hopefully), and spec'd out some cars on various sites, and was so dissapointed at how limited our choices are, how we constantly get treated as a lesser market because of I don't know what. Especially of how extensive the internet has gotten (and I'm being serious), it is obvious many major manufacturers think of North America as the place to make the most profit out of offering the least. And boy it sucks to know that.

(Sorry for the rant)
 

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Also not looking to troll here, being completely honest. You obviously arent from the US of A. (Yes I see that you are from Canada) Do you seriously think 99.99999% of the population gives a flying f*ck about 5 engine choices vs. 1?

I highly doubt the majority of car buyers do so without at least a considerable amount of research into what they're buying.
I buy Ford cuz my daddy buys Ford and my granddaddy buys Ford and my great granddaddy buys Ford.

Trump cant win, nobodies going to vote for that buffoon.

Climate change isnt real, everything is fine.


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Says a lot that a far smaller market like Australia has far more choices for consumers there than North America :mad::mad:
 

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Says a lot that a far smaller market like Australia has far more choices for consumers there than North America :mad::mad:
Are you guys basing such claims like that on how many engines the Golf is available with? Because there's a crazy dizzying array of vehicles you can get in America that aren't even available in much of the rest of the world. I was looking at the Ford Transit recently for example. That one van alone is available in something like 56 different versions with all different engines, wheelbases, roof heights, seating/cargo options, and so on. Most of Europe you can't even buy a full size vehicle, much less have 200+ variations of pickup trucks alone like we do in America. We have 6 or 7 different versions of the Honda Civic alone - a car that is barely even sold in Japan because they think it's too big for their culture now.

I seriously doubt that Australia actually has more choices in total, unless you are counting basically how anything that is made for the Japanese market can be imported, or whatever the import ability for US vehicles is. I view that as a very different situation than the US market, where cars are actually designed and built in north America specifically for the needs of Americans.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Not to torpedo you argument but US consumers bought a record breaking 17.55 millions new vehicles in 2016.
Well, I wouldn't expect people to stop buying cars altogether, is there really an alternative? I'm not saying protest the streets, but I've heard many many "non-car people" praising diesel engines, how cool X wagon rental was in Europe, stuff like that...
 

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Are you guys basing such claims like that on how many engines the Golf is available with? Because there's a crazy dizzying array of vehicles you can get in America that aren't even available in much of the rest of the world. I was looking at the Ford Transit recently for example. That one van alone is available in something like 56 different versions with all different engines, wheelbases, roof heights, seating/cargo options, and so on. Most of Europe you can't even buy a full size vehicle, much less have 200+ variations of pickup trucks alone like we do in America. We have 6 or 7 different versions of the Honda Civic alone - a car that is barely even sold in Japan because they think it's too big for their culture now.

I seriously doubt that Australia actually has more choices in total, unless you are counting basically how anything that is made for the Japanese market can be imported, or whatever the import ability for US vehicles is. I view that as a very different situation than the US market, where cars are actually designed and built in north America specifically for the needs of Americans.
It's not so much that, but the wide array of vehicles and brands that are available in the country officially.

Doesn't it seem odd that Nissan never continued to export the Safari/Patrol to the U.S. compared to the rest of the world? Hell, for the longest time Australia was an anomaly in that they continued to receive Y61 diesel-powered Patrols until late last year!
 

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Well, I wouldn't expect people to stop buying cars altogether, is there really an alternative? I'm not saying protest the streets, but I've heard many many "non-car people" praising diesel engines, how cool X wagon rental was in Europe, stuff like that...
That's odd. I have a lot of non-car friends and helped a good friend out when she had car questions on a recent purchase. Recommended all sorts of cars to replace her crashed Chevy Cavalier in red. What was good in her price range, flexibility, fuel economy, etc.

She bought a Chevy Cruze. Red. Because it was a Chevy. "Non-car" people do not praise anything about cars. :sly:
 

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As usual, its the lowest common denominator at play, and the lowest seems to be getting lower everyday. Americans want automatics, with lazy-boy seating, boat-like handling, and as many cup holders as possible, so that's what manufacturers make. An auto manufacturer can only make a few models, so they have to make them to appeal to the masses, and the masses in America want luxury, power, and a low price. In Europe, customers are more demanding and so manufacturers have to provide a wider array of products to appeal to them. Drive through a parking lot at Walmart and look at the cars. There will be vanishingly few small, sporty cars, and miles of pickup trucks, SUVs and econoboxes.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Are you guys basing such claims like that on how many engines the Golf is available with? Because there's a crazy dizzying array of vehicles you can get in America that aren't even available in much of the rest of the world. I was looking at the Ford Transit recently for example. That one van alone is available in something like 56 different versions with all different engines, wheelbases, roof heights, seating/cargo options, and so on. Most of Europe you can't even buy a full size vehicle, much less have 200+ variations of pickup trucks alone like we do in America. We have 6 or 7 different versions of the Honda Civic alone - a car that is barely even sold in Japan because they think it's too big for their culture now.

I seriously doubt that Australia actually has more choices in total, unless you are counting basically how anything that is made for the Japanese market can be imported, or whatever the import ability for US vehicles is. I view that as a very different situation than the US market, where cars are actually designed and built in north America specifically for the needs of Americans.
Well the Transit is available around the world with more variations, including the Transit Custom which isn't sold here.

And as for the bolded part, that's exactly where my issue lies. "The needs of Americans" is such a broad thing to say. Gone are the 50s when literally everyone wanted a RWD V8 Cadillac wide as the road it traveled on. Like it or not, the US is now full of people with different careers and specialties, some with families, others without, some who prefer country living, others who prefer an ultra modern condo in the middle of a bustling downtown.

The same thing goes for cars. At least in many ROW markets, I can option out a North American-esque car with a powerful turbo six cylinder and whatever else, or have it be a frugal 4 cylinder. I can't say the same about our market.

That's why I mentioned the Golf as an example. I think having a sole option of a 1.8T is complete overkill.I personally would give up some power to have better fuel economy. But nope, I can't do that.

The same thing goes for the big German 3. You're almost always forced into that ****ty imitation leather unless you get real leather, because obviously buying a lease spec 320i means you're a high roller and can't rest your skin on any pleb cloth. It's practically universally accepted that BMW, MB and Audi all sell cars in the ROW market that can not be really all that luxurious (see BMW 318, taxi-spec E-Class, etc), however in North America there seems to be an obsession with dressing them with fake leather in order to conserve this perception that you're buying a high end luxury car...I just find that so misleading and unnecessary.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
As usual, its the lowest common denominator at play, and the lowest seems to be getting lower everyday. Americans want automatics, with lazy-boy seating, boat-like handling, and as many cup holders as possible, so that's what manufacturers make. An auto manufacturer can only make a few models, so they have to make them to appeal to the masses, and the masses in America want luxury, power, and a low price. In Europe, customers are more demanding and so manufacturers have to provide a wider array of products to appeal to them. Drive through a parking lot at Walmart and look at the cars. There will be vanishingly few small, sporty cars, and miles of pickup trucks, SUVs and econoboxes.
I think they want that because that's all thats been offered forever. Why do so many reviewers then knock seats that don't offer too much support, cars that don't handle too well, etc;, if that's what Americans want?

I think it is SLOOWLY starting to change, but still, things still feel a bit like choosing the colour on a Ford Model T...
 

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Ever work at a NA dealership? Have you ever tried to sell a new car to an American customer? Sure i wish they were all enthusiasts flooding the used car market with sweet rwd manual gems. They are not. They just are not. Radio stations go under when their viewer-ship tanks. What works? Top 40. Movie studios go under when their artistic and creative films fail in the box offices. What works? Reboots of already successful IP's. When they look at the numbers they know that this is what YOU want. You want bbq menu items at restaurants in summer, football in the fall, awd CUVs in the winter, and you want Duke and Kentucky in the final 4 next spring. The ratings are available for anyone to review. Our retail habits and our entertainment desires are carefully tracked. When it comes to cars, the numbers dont lie. Show me a Subaru wrx or brz on this list. Wheres all the Audi rs4's? BMW m3s? Nope top 5 every month doesnt change. Ford f series first, two and three are the other two truck manufactures. 4 and 5 are usually Camry and Accord with a CUV somewhere in between. This is what YOU want and they know it.
 

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I think the issue is that Americans mostly prefer instant gratification.

They go to a lot, look at some cars and pick one. This drastically limits options as car manufacturers do not want to produce cars that won't sell.

In Europe on the other hand, most people special order their car and wait for it to be built. This allows for more options, as the money is transferred before the car is built, not after.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Ever work at a NA dealership? Have you ever tried to sell a new car to an American customer? Sure i wish they were all enthusiasts flooding the used car market with sweet rwd manual gems. They are not. They just are not. Radio stations go under when their viewer-ship tanks. What works? Top 40. Movie studios go under when their artistic and creative films tank in the box offices. What works? Reboots of already successful IP's. When they look at the numbers they know that this is what YOU want. You want bbq menu items at restaurants in summer, football in the fall, awd CUVs in the winter, and you want Duke and Kentucky in the final 4 next spring. The ratings are available for anyone to review. Our retail habits and our entertainment desires are carefully tracked. When it comes to cars, the numbers dont lie. Show me a Subaru wrx or brz on this list. Wheres all the Audi rs4's? BMW m3s? Nope top 5 every month doesnt change. Ford f series first, two and three are the other two truck manufactures. 4 and 5 are usually Camry and Accord with a CUV somewhere in between. This is what YOU want and they know it.

Those numbers are interesting, and I do appreciate your perspective from a car salesman (sorry if you're not). I can't help but think of a chicken and egg scenario. Which came first? The demand or the offering? Do we buy the cars we buy today because of what we truly want, or because of what's been traditionally offered for decades and we don't really have a choice?

Take the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel. Never has a truck in that segment been offered with a light duty diesel. Truck sales dictate most buyers want a V8, but the EcoDiesel sells in droves and has put the wheels in motion to see the first F150 light duty diesel as well. How would you explain that? Because it seems that more engine choices have been welcomed...
 

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This chart confuses me. I rarely see Rav4s, I also see many more Jettas and Passats than anything on the list below #6. I actually don't know the last time I saw a new Sentra on the road lol. Is this a specific region of the US? What about purchase vs lease. The fact the Jetta isn't even on the list baffles me. Same goes for the Focus, Grand Caravan and Pacifica.
 

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I buy Ford cuz my daddy buys Ford and my granddaddy buys Ford and my great granddaddy buys Ford.
My Ford had choices of a 1.5t, 1.6t, 2.5, 2.0H, 2.7t, front or all wheel drive, manual, etc etc. Also, great granddaddy swore by Dodge.
 

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Since Holden shut down I honestly can't think of 1 car that I'd really want that rest of the world gets and the US doesn't
 

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I like how the message of this thread is spun to make it sound like a base model VW Golf with less power than what we have here is the informed superior enthusiast choice, while our standard turbo engine is the "dumb sheeple" option. :rolleyes: Cars over in Europe have a million tiny engine options not because they're a more refined, demanding automotive community, but because owning and operating cars over there is so freaking expensive. That little 1.8T is prohibitively costly to keep fueled and taxed for some people, so they need a lesser option. The United States makes owning a car so accessible and easy that we don't need anemic 3 cylinder options. However, we also have such a great selection of vehicles here, that you certainly can have a tiny 3 cylinder if you want in the form of a Fiesta 1.0 or a Mitsubishi Mirage... or you can have a cheap V8 Mustang, Challenger, or Camaro, all of which the ROW has to pay handsomely for.
 

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I want for a manual AWD 400+hp car. That is all. I wont get it, until 2021 when I can fly to germany, buy a B7 RS4 avant, and ship it back.
 
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