Speed cost $$. That's why FI is so popular. It's alot cheaper to bolt on a turbo than blueprint/balance/or P&P. I have researched this idea of race prep motors in daily drivers. It can work, with proper preperation. Bertil is the builder I'm working with to create my motor. http://www.bertilsengines.com/
Re: Now this is a rabbit!!! (JusAnothaRabbitRacer)
actually, it was 14:1 compression...i'm going back today, so i'll try and get some pics of the engine bay and some more information...when i heard that this car was going to be here, I was assuming it would be a 16v or something, and I had never heard of this super vee engine before, so I didn't know much of what he was saying about it. I do know that they completly scrapped the stock suspension setup and custom made a system that mounts directly, with no need for the macpherson struts. It's a puropose built car and does it's job quite well
quote:[HR][/HR]actually, it was 14:1 compression...i'm going back today, so i'll try and get some pics of the engine bay and some more information[HR][/HR]
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif don't forget your camera
quote:[HR][/HR]...when i heard that this car was going to be here, I was assuming it would be a 16v or something, and I had never heard of this super vee engine before, so I didn't know much of what he was saying about it[HR][/HR]
try to find out some specs if possible. That info would really answer most of our questions
The original "Super Vee" 1588cc engines in the '70s cost about $10,000. The short block had to be VW parts (ie crank, rods, etc.) but the cylinder head was extensively modified with much larger valves & P/P. The compression was limited to 11:1 with power of 160 HP at 7,500 rpm.
All of the engines used a dry sump oiling system and the Bosch Kugelfischer mechanical fuel injection. The Bosch Kugelfischer mechanical fuel injection used an intake manifold with four (4) dedicated runners and four 4) trumpets with mechanical butterflies. The injector lines attached to the end of the trumpets.
Not many of these original engines survived as racing took its toll. Consequently I would be surprised if the engine in the Rabbit is an original "Super Vee" unit.
If you get a chance to look at the engine, it should have a dry sump oiling system and the Bosch Kugelfischer mechanical fuel injection.
Otherwise the engine is a basic race modified 1.6L unit with high compression and probably dual sidedraft carbs. As previously noted, the Super Vee engines only had 11:1 compression but made the power due to the larger valves and porting in the cylinder head.
I have a friend who runs a 1.6L engine with extremely high compression and dual sidedrafts in SCCA G-Production. His dyno number is about 155 to 160 HP at the crank with the 34mm intake valves and 31mm exhaust valves as required by SCCA.
The original Super Vee 1.6L engines were allowed 39.5mm intake valves and 34mm exhaust valves. The camshaft was typically a Schrick 324 degree cam. The Super Vee engines used three clogged belts: (1) one for the dry sump oil system, (2) one for the camshaft, and (3) one for the water pump. Regards, WWR.
[Modified by WackyWabbitRacer, 11:04 AM 3-16-2003]
Hey WWR, do you have any pics of the Bosch Kugelfischer injection setup? I tried Google, but all I found out was that almost everyone in the late 70's was using this Bosch FI for their race cars. Thanks!
I've found some super vee racing sites that people have classified listed for used super vee motors. As low as $1500 for just a block. $4500 for a full motor that's been raced a few times to $12000 for a "new" race motor.
Sometimes you can find just parts like cranks, rods, pistons, etc...
I was seriously considering building a screaming 1.6. For the cost, it's just not worth it unless you're going to race it.
So why do people choose the 1.6 instead of a 1.8 or a 2.0 to get that power? I have only heard of the 1.6's making that much power. Is it because of the short stroke, and class rules? Is this power setup limited to the 1.6, or can you get the same results+ with larger displacement?
Here is a pic of an F3 vw motor with mech injection.
Here is a PDF of an article from 1980 out of Dune Buggies and Hot VW's There are specs of the Supervee motors and a lot of details about supervee and the car and engine builders. It's a large file 5mb and I'll only have it up on my server today.
Please right click and "Save-As" http://www.lunitixx.com/temp/super/Supervee.pdf
Darrell from Techtonics told me that there was a complete Brabham SV engine, including dry sump and injection that sold recently on ebay for $1100!
As Dr. Ryan said, the SV spec was 11:1 and 1.6 liters. IIRC, when these motors were being used in Formula Atlantic, there was no CR limit, and some of them were pushing 14:1 and making 200+ hp.
You can also check out the old BMW 2002 tii which used the Bosch mech. injection.
The very first Super Vees used the air-cooled VW engine. The water-cooled 1.6L was a subsequent replacement, and the USAC rules specified that the displacement could not be greater than 1.6 liters.
As Bill indicated, many of the Super Vee engines were used in the Formula Atlantic series with greater compression. I guess there is still some old stuff out there but the Bosch Kugelfischer fuel injection is probably harder to find since there were more engines built than the number of B/K units that were reusable.
The short block of the Super Vees was basically a stock unit with more compression as the USAC rules required stock components. The short block could be balanced and blueprinted. Most of the cost was in the cylinder head as considerable work was done in the valve seats to accommodate the larger valves.
Don't know the availability of the original Bosch Kugelfischer units, probably pretty pricey. Regards, WWR.
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