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Anyone know of a good place to buy/look at coilovers of the offroad style for a MKIII Golf??? I have seen a kit or two that offer 1" of lift to 1" lowered somewhere before but i dont remember whar...
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Off road Coilovers
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192 Posts
Check with DavenportRacingUSA.com he has a few different brands that fit VW's. Are you just going for look or do you want an offroad suspension? Either way Davenport can help shoot him an email if you dont see what you are looking for.
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169 Posts
Re: (Barefootracing)
I want something legit (functional) for offroad/gravel/rough terrain. it's my DD, but being an offroader at heart i want something i can twist down for the summer, and twist up for the winter and when i go camping/hiking/biking/hopefully rallying(legally)
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I have a 60/40 H&R cupkit on the car now, and i like the stance but i know it's way too low for racing, and i am a LITTLE afraid that the offroad kit will leave it a bit high, at IT's lowest point...know what i mean?
I want something legit (functional) for offroad/gravel/rough terrain. it's my DD, but being an offroader at heart i want something i can twist down for the summer, and twist up for the winter and when i go camping/hiking/biking/hopefully rallying(legally)
I have a 60/40 H&R cupkit on the car now, and i like the stance but i know it's way too low for racing, and i am a LITTLE afraid that the offroad kit will leave it a bit high, at IT's lowest point...know what i mean?
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192 Posts
Yeah I realize that most off road kits dont alow for alot of lowering but you may want to check into Hotbits or Bilstein HD's. Davenport has both and Doug should be able to tell you what kind of height adjustment you are looking at. Those are probably the better setups for your needs. They are stiff but will handle about anything you throw at them for a reasonable price $800 to $1200 for the base models
Re: Off road Coilovers (Boonie Buster)
You're thinking of H&R "Dune Buggy" Coilovers. I don't think H&R even makes them anymore
| Quote, originally posted by Boonie Buster » |
| Anyone know of a good place to buy/look at coilovers of the offroad style for a MKIII Golf??? I have seen a kit or two that offer 1" of lift to 1" lowered somewhere before but i dont remember whar...
|
You're thinking of H&R "Dune Buggy" Coilovers. I don't think H&R even makes them anymore
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571 Posts
I don't know, I don't consider Hotbits or Bilsteins HDs as offroad setups...What do you mean by "offroad"?...rally is in on-road you know...
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(and I run Hotbits..nice setup but I wouldn't go offroading on them or in my GTI for that matter...)
(and I run Hotbits..nice setup but I wouldn't go offroading on them or in my GTI for that matter...)
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571 Posts
Re: (GT17V)
I suppose there is offroad racing that can be classified as rally (like Dakar) but I guess I was thinking of the conventional definition of rally (point to point racing on closed roads of all surface types, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rallying), my bad.
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In any case, I don't think you will find a Hotbits setup that can be used successfully for offroading. Email Peter Reilly ([email protected]) or larry parker ([email protected])....larry knows a ton about suspensions in general (bilsteins, hotbits, etc etc), he could help you out I'm sure.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Modified by TheRealEddie at 10:56 PM 3-25-2008
I suppose there is offroad racing that can be classified as rally (like Dakar) but I guess I was thinking of the conventional definition of rally (point to point racing on closed roads of all surface types, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rallying), my bad.
In any case, I don't think you will find a Hotbits setup that can be used successfully for offroading. Email Peter Reilly ([email protected]) or larry parker ([email protected])....larry knows a ton about suspensions in general (bilsteins, hotbits, etc etc), he could help you out I'm sure.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Modified by TheRealEddie at 10:56 PM 3-25-2008
Re: (TheRealEddie)
if you're a fan of what little is there of US rally via Rally-America & NASA, the vast majority of rally is done off-road, which includes dirt trails, semi-paved roads, and gravel stages. Very few US rallies are done on the public tarmac. Then when you watch WRC, it's more of the same, except Rally is celebrated in the rest of the world.
When you do the stages that are not on tarmac, the cars are set up with a lot of ground clearance, to be prepared for all the ruts on dirt & gravel stages.
Only the tarmac events is where cars are slammed to the ground
| Quote, originally posted by TheRealEddie » |
| I suppose there is offroad racing that can be classified as rally (like Dakar) but I guess I was thinking of the conventional definition of rally (point to point racing on closed roads of all surface types, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rallying), my bad.
In any case, I don't think you will find a Hotbits setup that can be used successfully for offroading. Email Peter Reilly ([email protected]) or larry parker ([email protected])....larry knows a ton about suspensions in general (bilsteins, hotbits, etc etc), he could help you out I'm sure.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Modified by TheRealEddie at 10:56 PM 3-25-2008 |
if you're a fan of what little is there of US rally via Rally-America & NASA, the vast majority of rally is done off-road, which includes dirt trails, semi-paved roads, and gravel stages. Very few US rallies are done on the public tarmac. Then when you watch WRC, it's more of the same, except Rally is celebrated in the rest of the world.
When you do the stages that are not on tarmac, the cars are set up with a lot of ground clearance, to be prepared for all the ruts on dirt & gravel stages.
Only the tarmac events is where cars are slammed to the ground
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192 Posts
I agree that hotbits or any rally suspension would not be very good for rock climbing or sand dunes but what kind of offroading are you going to do with a mk3? If a suspension can stand up to Echo Lake (part of LSPR) then it is as off road as any car might need.
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571 Posts
Re: (GT17V)
You're missing the point: There's a difference between driving on a dirt, rocky, gravel etc road and OFF road racing. Rally is not off-road racing, its off-tarmac for the vast most part yes, but its not off road. Stages are typically ROADS.
At one rally I was talking to someone who raced off-road in Mexico while waiting at a control. When I asked what the off-road courses were like he said,
"Well, you see in rally we are racing this way". He points down the road. "In my off-road truck, we race that way." He points perpendicular to the road, through the rough desert.
Modified by TheRealEddie at 10:19 AM 3-26-2008
You're missing the point: There's a difference between driving on a dirt, rocky, gravel etc road and OFF road racing. Rally is not off-road racing, its off-tarmac for the vast most part yes, but its not off road. Stages are typically ROADS.
At one rally I was talking to someone who raced off-road in Mexico while waiting at a control. When I asked what the off-road courses were like he said,
"Well, you see in rally we are racing this way". He points down the road. "In my off-road truck, we race that way." He points perpendicular to the road, through the rough desert.
Modified by TheRealEddie at 10:19 AM 3-26-2008
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571 Posts
Re: (Barefootracing)
True enough, but people have attemped to take less prepared cars rock climbing or on sand dunes than a mk3..who knows exactly what Boonie is thinking
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| Quote, originally posted by Barefootracing » |
| I agree that hotbits or any rally suspension would not be very good for rock climbing or sand dunes but what kind of offroading are you going to do with a mk3? If a suspension can stand up to Echo Lake (part of LSPR) then it is as off road as any car might need.
|
True enough, but people have attemped to take less prepared cars rock climbing or on sand dunes than a mk3..who knows exactly what Boonie is thinking
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169 Posts
Re: (mhoche)
WOW! I leave this thread and this is what happens
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ANYWAYS to clarify what i meant by offroad (sorry my 4X4ing ways got the best of me
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) But by "offroad" I meant not ON-road (ie. pavement, paved/packed surface) Gravel or rough road i consider "off-road" I use the term loosely since i spend more time truly off road than most
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But ya, I am looking for something setup to do gravel roads and rougher road. I also mean that as in "I'm going camping and want to take it up THAT road!"
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This car has already seen 1+ ft of snow two winters in a row and I don't plan on stopping. I am just in need of some new struts this summer and want to make the car a little more rally-esc.
Thanks for the advice and clarification on "offroad"
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WOW! I leave this thread and this is what happens
ANYWAYS to clarify what i meant by offroad (sorry my 4X4ing ways got the best of me
But ya, I am looking for something setup to do gravel roads and rougher road. I also mean that as in "I'm going camping and want to take it up THAT road!"
This car has already seen 1+ ft of snow two winters in a row and I don't plan on stopping. I am just in need of some new struts this summer and want to make the car a little more rally-esc.
Thanks for the advice and clarification on "offroad"
More advice than needed?
I'm totally new to the forum. I drive rallies for leisure and I'm part of the organisation of the WRC for Corona Rally Mexico. I love VW's and I love to use them off-road. I've read this whole thread because I'm interested in developing a good "off-road" suspension for my MkIII GTD Golf. It's awesome the torque it puts down and you need a pretty sturdy suspension to do so. If there's anybody out there who could help me with the engineering process, I will appreciate it.
Maybe I have a possible answer to this whole thread: in rallying, what we do, we call it off-road, even when we do drive on "roads" -sometimes not much more than a switchback or a fire trail. Maybe the answer to one of the posters was given by a driver in the Baja 1000. That's not the "usual" rally, that's one of the most specialised races in the world (please watch Dust to Glory, a film by Dana Brown) along with the Dakar Rally.
Gravel suspensions should be perfectly matched with the chassis you drive. So, design varies if your car has frame welding or not, the kind of upper support (fixed, independent, adjustable or ball-mounted), if they will be used on slippery or firm gravel, the thickness of the sway bars (F&R), use of spacers or not, final whp and torque, camber, toe-in and toe-out. That's why I need some help.
Most rally gravel suspensions are of the inverted kind and usually the front dampers have a huge adjustment wheel that can lower or raise up to 5 in. from its bottom stance (at least, 3 in. taller than tarmac-spec) and refrigerating reservoirs that are usually further cooled by water injection. The coil itself is progressive and extermely sturdy. The ride is very, very hard on roads, but when you go to a gravel event, it's pure magic.
This suspension can take a 50 m. long jump (and 2 m. high) without fuzz... rocks and ruts are completely absorbed thanks to the pairing of low-frequency absorption of the dampers and the high-frequency capabilities of the coils. A good example of this sustained stress is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDBICkz7Pq4
A rally car can go almost anywhere with lots more of punishment than a classic off-road car (a 4x4 Jeep, Land Rover, etc.), but it's meant for speed, rather than tackling huge obstacles. A rally car wouldn't make it through a wilderness competition, but it can swoosh over a rocky river bed at 60 mph!
Those of you who are from Canada or some of the northern States can attest to this if you drive a Subaru Outback, Imprezza or Forester: you can go really fast and do unimaginable things you simply couldn't do driving a Jeep.
I'm totally new to the forum. I drive rallies for leisure and I'm part of the organisation of the WRC for Corona Rally Mexico. I love VW's and I love to use them off-road. I've read this whole thread because I'm interested in developing a good "off-road" suspension for my MkIII GTD Golf. It's awesome the torque it puts down and you need a pretty sturdy suspension to do so. If there's anybody out there who could help me with the engineering process, I will appreciate it.
Maybe I have a possible answer to this whole thread: in rallying, what we do, we call it off-road, even when we do drive on "roads" -sometimes not much more than a switchback or a fire trail. Maybe the answer to one of the posters was given by a driver in the Baja 1000. That's not the "usual" rally, that's one of the most specialised races in the world (please watch Dust to Glory, a film by Dana Brown) along with the Dakar Rally.
Gravel suspensions should be perfectly matched with the chassis you drive. So, design varies if your car has frame welding or not, the kind of upper support (fixed, independent, adjustable or ball-mounted), if they will be used on slippery or firm gravel, the thickness of the sway bars (F&R), use of spacers or not, final whp and torque, camber, toe-in and toe-out. That's why I need some help.
Most rally gravel suspensions are of the inverted kind and usually the front dampers have a huge adjustment wheel that can lower or raise up to 5 in. from its bottom stance (at least, 3 in. taller than tarmac-spec) and refrigerating reservoirs that are usually further cooled by water injection. The coil itself is progressive and extermely sturdy. The ride is very, very hard on roads, but when you go to a gravel event, it's pure magic.
This suspension can take a 50 m. long jump (and 2 m. high) without fuzz... rocks and ruts are completely absorbed thanks to the pairing of low-frequency absorption of the dampers and the high-frequency capabilities of the coils. A good example of this sustained stress is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDBICkz7Pq4
A rally car can go almost anywhere with lots more of punishment than a classic off-road car (a 4x4 Jeep, Land Rover, etc.), but it's meant for speed, rather than tackling huge obstacles. A rally car wouldn't make it through a wilderness competition, but it can swoosh over a rocky river bed at 60 mph!
Those of you who are from Canada or some of the northern States can attest to this if you drive a Subaru Outback, Imprezza or Forester: you can go really fast and do unimaginable things you simply couldn't do driving a Jeep.
A couple of videos you'll like
This was suicidal, literally. Barry did this jump ON TARMAC!!!!!!!! going a tad over 200Km/h.... the car was fine, but his back was damaged beyond repair.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FCYMx6XzUA
Anyway, gravel jumps are the most punishing... watch this one... everything... suspension and chassis give way to the shock!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWdPpHj07g0&feature=related
This was suicidal, literally. Barry did this jump ON TARMAC!!!!!!!! going a tad over 200Km/h.... the car was fine, but his back was damaged beyond repair.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FCYMx6XzUA
Anyway, gravel jumps are the most punishing... watch this one... everything... suspension and chassis give way to the shock!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWdPpHj07g0&feature=related
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356 Posts
Re: Off road Coilovers (Boonie Buster)
dose it have to be coilovers, Andy Smith from GKR (giant killer racing) makes springs still I think. I bought rad/pro springs which lifted the car at least good 1/2 inch to 3/4. the were for street and off road. I had koni sport adjustables and they were great. I have no # or address I got them 4 years ago. he has different heights if i recall. Just sold my A3 and keeped the set up for maybe down the road. Good luck yea hes out of pennsylvania.
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dose it have to be coilovers, Andy Smith from GKR (giant killer racing) makes springs still I think. I bought rad/pro springs which lifted the car at least good 1/2 inch to 3/4. the were for street and off road. I had koni sport adjustables and they were great. I have no # or address I got them 4 years ago. he has different heights if i recall. Just sold my A3 and keeped the set up for maybe down the road. Good luck yea hes out of pennsylvania.
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