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Can’t be any worse than a loaded S-class, 7-series, or anything British or Italian.

It’s interesting to note that 2017-2018 75D and 90D are both ~$60k cars, give or take $5k. The trim doesn’t seem to matter. That’s over a 75% residual on the 75D and just about 65% on the 90D. Find me a German car doing better than that after 3-4 years.


About the only ‘mass production’ cars immune to depreciation are fun trucks (Raptor, TRD Tacoma, well-specced Wranglers), the Model 3, and flat-6 manual Porsches (doubly so if it is GT-spec or a desirable color combo), but even then, if you go wild with superfluous options and/or factory upgrades, you’re never going to recuperate those dollars.


Come to think of it, a garage with a Raptor, a Model 3P, and a 6cyl manual Porsche (Cayman or Carrera) would make a damn fine assortment of vehicles..
 

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Can’t be any worse than a loaded S-class, 7-series, or anything British or Italian.
I don't think that MB, BMW or anyone else reduces the MSRP of their cars by 25 to 40% over the span of 2 - 4 years. That has to have a direct effect on the resale/depreciation. Why buy an old used one when the new one isn't too much more?
 

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Discussion Starter #123
Why buy an old used one when the new one isn't too much more?
I agree and I believe this has fueled new sales to the levels we see. Just a quick glance through CarGurus shows all kinds of used Model S examples for MORE money than a new one at today's price. But some Americans cannot wait the 4-8 weeks and buy used to have it today.

I hope we see a new price cut with the Model 3. Long Range AWD under $44k. SR+ at $32k.
 

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I don't think that MB, BMW or anyone else reduces the MSRP of their cars by 25 to 40% over the span of 2 - 4 years. That has to have a direct effect on the resale/depreciation. Why buy an old used one when the new one isn't too much more?
I was randomly browsing M2’s and saw a CPO 2018 740i with 30k miles for $43k. Sure, they might not drop their MSRP by 40%, but that’s 50% depreciation in 2 years. Makes buying a Model S look like a smart buy.
 

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I was randomly browsing M2’s and saw a CPO 2018 740i with 30k miles for $43k. Sure, they might not drop their MSRP by 40%, but that’s 50% depreciation in 2 years. Makes buying a Model S look like a smart buy.
The price cut comes on top of depreciation. Although Tesla depreciation has certainly been better than your average Euro lux barge. If Tesla hadn't cut prices, their resale values/depreciation would look spectacular.
 

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I agree and I believe this has fueled new sales to the levels we see. Just a quick glance through CarGurus shows all kinds of used Model S examples for MORE money than a new one at today's price. But some Americans cannot wait the 4-8 weeks and buy used to have it today.

I hope we see a new price cut with the Model 3. Long Range AWD under $44k. SR+ at $32k.
Tesla lists about 5 new Model S and 12 new Model X vehicles in inventory within 200 miles of my location. But they do show 4-8 weeks for anything new build. No Model 3 or Model Y in inventory near me.
 

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The price cut comes on top of depreciation. Although Tesla depreciation has certainly been better than your average Euro lux barge. If Tesla hadn't cut prices, their resale values/depreciation would look spectacular.
I don't get this. Don't you mean "the depreciation comes on top of the price cut?" but that's clearly not the case, at least not on a 75D at $60k used. I haven't tracked the prices of the higher end cars.

I don't really like that Tesla's moving to this "Long Range" type nomenclature. You used to know what size battery pack a car (75D) had. Now you don't.

I get that the *range* on a 75D from 2016 might be less than the range on a "new" 75D with better tech. But switching to arbitrary terms will make it worse. You'll have to remember that was a "pre-range increase Long-Range" or other such mental gymnastics. I guess that's not any different from having to remember that an M5 from 2016 has more HP than an M5 from 2005, but still.
 

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I don't get this. Don't you mean "the depreciation comes on top of the price cut?" but that's clearly not the case, at least not on a 75D at $60k used. I haven't tracked the prices of the higher end cars.

I don't really like that Tesla's moving to this "Long Range" type nomenclature. You used to know what size battery pack a car (75D) had. Now you don't.

I get that the *range* on a 75D from 2016 might be less than the range on a "new" 75D with better tech. But switching to arbitrary terms will make it worse. You'll have to remember that was a "pre-range increase Long-Range" or other such mental gymnastics. I guess that's not any different from having to remember that an M5 from 2016 has more HP than an M5 from 2005, but still.

I am not saying it is exactly added on top but rather the price cuts to new models are a significant factor in the depreciation of the older models. Every new car depreciates. Some more than others. 4 - 5 years ago Tesla didn't have a ton of depreciation like other expensive luxury models. And if they didn't cut the prices of their new cars, the older models would still have really high resale values (some depreciation but not huge like typical expensive luxury cars). But since they cut the price (and improved the technology/range) of the equivalent new models, that deep price cut has to significantly factor in to the depreciation of the older model.
 

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I'm sure I have one that came with my mobile charger kit, maybe I can get $$$$ for it on eBay :D I don't think I've even used the mobile charger in 2 years, definitely haven't ever used the 14-50.

My dad has a 14-50 at his house, but we've never taken our car down to SD, and anyway, he's got the mobile charger for us to use :)





Yeah, just use a j1772. I have a Tesla wall connector because I got it for free, but if I had to pay, I'd probably use a 3rd party.

BTW, the button on the handle is fairly pointless; I find it takes a few presses for it to work, during which time i slap the charge port door with the handle, and when it opens, I don't know if it opened because of the button or because of the slap :laugh:

(you do know you can just tap the charge port door and it will open, right?)



Yeah, your list sounds exactly like our model 3 LR, right down to the crap rear visibility, so I'm guessing the car you drove was in chill mode. The RWD 3's not quite as violent off the line as an AWD car, but i certainly wouldn't ever call the power delivery disappointing.

I've never used chill mode and I can't fathom why anyone would, so I can't comment as to how different it is.
You have a M3 RWD? Can you talk about how it accelerates on the highway compared to the dual motors? Sounds like RWD is significantly lighter, so i was thinking it might be more enjoyable over the faster but heavier AWD variants?
 

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You have a M3 RWD? Can you talk about how it accelerates on the highway compared to the dual motors? Sounds like RWD is significantly lighter, so i was thinking it might be more enjoyable over the faster but heavier AWD variants?
I cannot, I've never driven a dual motor 3, the only AWD teslas I've driven have been the S.

Spec sheet says 260lb weight difference but 60hp between the RWD and AWD? I don't know.

I'd say the power is instant and unrelenting but it definitely runs out of steam over, say, 90mph. That's not to say you don't punch it at highway speeds and find yourself surprised to see triple digits, but you're not gonna be outrunning much once you get to those speeds. From driving the S, though, it feels more violent under 20mph, whereas the RWD car as a bit less of an edge and instead ramps the power delivery aggressively, rather than hitting you aggressively.

I've never wished we had the AWD version, if that helps. I suppose these days you can get an off menu performance for close to what we paid a few years ago, so that would be tempting. I definitely did not want 19s.
 

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But since they cut the price (and improved the technology/range) of the equivalent new models, that deep price cut has to significantly factor in to the depreciation of the older model.
Just so I can better understand your argument, you would rather a provider of goods (that has found it can produce a higher volume of higher-quality goods at lower prices and still generate an acceptable profit) artificially maintain a higher price point.... to protect the value of goods it sold 2, 3, even 5 years prior?

Who would that really benefit? A few high-income early adopters? Some of whom got to claim federal tax credits?

And ultimately, even with Tesla’s drastic price cuts on high-trim vehicles, many used Tesla’s are still retaining a higher % of their original MSRP relative to comparable Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Lexus/Jaguar cars. Bottom line, outside of the ultra-rich collector car world, nobody buys a vehicle as an investment. You buy a vehicle to use it for as long as it lasts (or for as long as you want it)... and you either can afford it or you can’t.
 

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Discussion Starter #136 (Edited)
It's official. Interesting that the Audi A7 is $220 cheaper but was outsold 10 to 1 in Q3 2020. Wild


 

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I can think of one, but he’s 450 mil in debt.
And Tesla has over $12 Billion in debt. Makes Trump's $450 million look like child's play. ;)

 

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Can't find the Model Y thread.

Tesla Is Calling Model Y Owners For Roof Inspection After One Flew Off

When something as weird as a roof lifting off of a car happens, the manufacturer should take measures – promote a recall, for example. As you know, that happened to the Tesla Model Y Nathaniel Chien’s family had just received on October 5. Some days later, Brian Sparks warned us Tesla was apparently taking action: it asked Joe Fraga to inspect his two-week Model Y and said its roof would have to be replaced.

Fraga shared that at the Tesla Model Y Facebook group on October 14. We contacted him to learn more about the situation, and Fraga told us that Tesla spontaneously contacted him. In other words, he never complained about any issues with its roof to the company.

“I received an email from Tesla asking me to bring my vehicle in so they could ensure the safety of the roof.”

Surprised about that, Fraga took his car to the Tesla Service Center and received bad news.

“They discovered it was defective, didn’t say what was wrong but said it would take a few days to get what they needed to fix it. That was Wednesday. I have not heard anything yet.”

Fraga is pretty much in the dark about what the issue was. Sharing his story on Facebook made him meet the Tesla supporters that cannot conceive the company could not do anything wrong.



He also saw jokes about the company’s numerous issues with the glass gluing process – with urethane, to be more precise. Even Sandy Munro pointed it out in his Model Y teardown process.



More than anything, the Facebook post helped him learn about other cases of roof issues. Since we did not contact all the people involved, we'll just mention their initials. SC mentioned his car presented leaks and had to have its rear window replaced after only five days of ownership. NM said his Model Y’s roof was replaced due to a stress crack. That is something shattering rear windows in the car are also presenting.



LHP then said his Tesla technician told him the company is recalling “a large group of VINs both before and after ‘the car that made news for losing its roof.’” BO said that Tesla is contacting “60 vehicles before and 60 vehicles after production to check.” That would be a VIN around 551XX.

More News On Tesla Model Y Issues:

We'd contact Tesla to clarify this, but the company does not talk to the press. That said, we need our readers' help to learn more about the situation. If Tesla asked to inspect the roof of your car recently – regardless of being a Model Y or not – get in touch at [email protected] or through our Facebook page.

Although it is nice to learn that Tesla is taking action, even voluntary recalls demand NHTSA to be informed. We’ll ask the agency if that was the case. If Tesla claims this inspection does not involve safety, that is not what it told Joe Fraga about the problem. The word “safety” is very evident there. And any safety issue demands a proper recall.
 

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China Forces Tesla To Recall Most Model S, X Models, Company Responds

Tesla says the recall is unnecessary, but is doing it anyway.





We recently wrote about possible suspension issues in certain Tesla vehicles, specifically with control arms and other important components breaking. It appears the company is taking action, though only in China, only for certain Model S and X units, and only because the Chinese government is forcing it to.

Tesla has announced a recall for 18,182 units of the Model S and X in China. In a letter obtained by Electrek from Elizabeth H. Mykytiuk, Tesla’s managing counsel for regulatory affairs, to NHTSA informing the US government of this recall in China, Tesla disputes the need for a recall and claims it's only doing so because the alternative of having to deal with the Chinese government's consequences is more onerous. Tesla will have to replace the "rear linkages of the left and right front suspension" and the "upper linkages of the left and right rear suspension" with a new, more robust one.

Tesla, however, claims there is no defect causing its suspensions to break, but rather that component failures have been caused by driver abuse – things like striking pot holes too hard or hitting curbs.

The 18,182 vehicles being recalled is a very different number from the one Gasgoo originally reported. According to that first report, China's State Administration for Market Regulation (SAMR) wanted the recall of 29,193 Model S and Model X cars manufactured between September 17, 2013, and August 16, 2017, and 19,249 other Model S units produced between September 17, 2013, and October 15, 2018.

While the Gasgoo report does not inform why these two groups seem to be the same, the original recall document was posted by Moneyball on Twitter.

He considered the number to be limited to 29,193 units because of that date coincidence but probably missed the fact that the second group was produced for more time. That would imply a larger number of vehicles involved.


While we thought the precise number of EVs recalled would probably be closer to the one Gasgoo reported, Tesla came up with a smaller number in its letter sent to NHTSA, though doesn't indicate how it came to that number.

It also does not mention why the Chinese administrative process would be a "heavy burden," just that it would be and complying with the recall is easier.What calls our attention is that the recall involves some of the very first Model Ss and Model Xs ever produced. It is not limited to a production interval but extends to all of them up to vehicles produced until 2018. September 17, 2013, was probably chosen as the first date because the first cars exported to China must have started being produced on that date.

It remains to be seen whether US or European authorities will also ask Tesla to issue a recall related to these suspensions, but if they do, Tesla's response to Chinese authorities may indicate the outcome.
 
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