VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum banner
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
3,207 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If you had a choice of either EFI or Carbs, which one would you pick? Remember, they are both on the same engine.
Oh, and just for the hell of it, could someone put up a pick of the hotwheel girls?

I didn't get to save the pic...
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,323 Posts
Re: Performance king: EFI vs. Carbs (nokona)

Carbs.
I want to see IHRA Pro Stock drag racers run FI though. Supposedly they are going to start soon. So some teams will run FI and some carbs, it will be a good comparison test so to speak.
I've never dealt with carbs really. I want to learn to tune carbs, I mean really tune them.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,207 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: Performance king: EFI vs. Carbs (nokona)

In EFI's defense:
quote:[HR][/HR]For most 510 owners, the thought of an electronic fuel-injected car is completely abhorrent. "I'm not going to have a bunch of electric stuff on my car that's just waiting to fail and leave me stranded." Some of us are even afraid of electronic distributors, preferring to put up with the idiosyncrasies of condensers just for joys of fiddling with points. I felt the same way, but the challenge of one more unusual mod to my car was too much. That, and the urging of a couple Z-car driving friends who swore by their EFI 280Zs.
Well, they were right. This is a very worthwhile mod. I've been running a peanut-chamber L18 head with an L20B cam and an L20B bottom end. About 9.2:1 compression. Carburetion, until recently, was 44mm Z SUs. Good top end – the engine would pull to 7000 rpm. I changed to 38mm carbs and found bottom-end torque to be greatly improved but completely out of breath by 6000 rpm. With the EFI, the low-end power is better than ever, and it pulls well at the top end, too. Wonderfully smooth power from 1000 to 6500 rpm. It’ll pull to seven grand, but there’s no need to.
The car starts easily when cold and there's no choke to adjust as it warms. Absolutely no flat spot in the powerband. And when you turn it off it dies right now. No run-on. Another nice change for those of us who are skilled at the "clutch kill".
The highway mileage didn't go up much, still about 27.5mpg at 75mph with a 5 speed, but the improvement in city mileage is amazing. I have a 2.5 mile commute which was getting me between 16 and 17mpg. The car barely warms up. And most of my driving is in town. The mileage is now between 19 and 20mpg. Usually on the high side.
More power, better driveability and better fuel mileage. You have to like a win-win-win situation.

Click here for the whole thing, which is pretty much just installation.[HR][/HR]​


[Modified by RJetta8V, 11:21 PM 11-30-2001]
 

· Registered
Joined
·
12,214 Posts
Re: Performance king: EFI vs. Carbs (TabulaRasa)

From what I have read (not personal experience), you either sacrifice performance for gas mileage, or sacrifice gas mileage for performance, in the case of carbed engines.
Maybe this isn't the case, correct me if I'm wrong.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
35,288 Posts
Re: Performance king: EFI vs. Carbs (RJetta8V)

i will NEVER buy a carbureted vehicle. if i do it's getting converted to Fuel Injection. unless you live in a place where the temperature and humidity doesn't change 24x7.... carbs suck.
obin
 

· Registered
Joined
·
35,288 Posts
Re: Performance king: EFI vs. Carbs (RJetta8V)

here's what happens if your carbs aren't living in their magical, mystical +/- .001 degree or humidity % range they want to be in:
1) carb icing (if it gets too cold)
2) running rich (if they go out of adjustment)
3) running lean (if they go out of adjustment)
4) vapor lock
5) altitude variations due to air density (car can't adjust like fuel injection can)
in other words... i live in a state with 105 degree summer days with 100% humidity, and 20 below zero winter nights with 5% humidity. unless the engine compartment of your car is your home-away-from-home, and you love constantly adjusting the jets, carbs suck!
long live fuel injection (and the ability for your car to start on a summer day, a humid day, a hot day, a cold day, and within 1 minute after you turned it off and parked on a hill)
obin
 

· Registered
Joined
·
12,214 Posts
Re: Performance king: EFI vs. Carbs (Obin Robinson)

Bart: I cannot believe you are here! Do you think maybe you could give
me some pointers?
Joe Namath: Sure! Theres only one thing you need to know to be a great
quarterback.
Mrs Namath: Joe, hunny, I fixed it! It was just vapor lock!
Joe Namath: OK, look, I've gotta run. Remember what I told you!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5,939 Posts
Re: Performance king: EFI vs. Carbs (Obin Robinson)

quote:[HR][/HR]here's what happens if your carbs aren't living in their magical, mystical +/- .001 degree or humidity % range they want to be in:
1) carb icing (if it gets too cold)
2) running rich (if they go out of adjustment)
3) running lean (if they go out of adjustment)
4) vapor lock
5) altitude variations due to air density (car can't adjust like fuel injection can)
in other words... i live in a state with 105 degree summer days with 100% humidity, and 20 below zero winter nights with 5% humidity. unless the engine compartment of your car is your home-away-from-home, and you love constantly adjusting the jets, carbs suck!
long live fuel injection (and the ability for your car to start on a summer day, a humid day, a hot day, a cold day, and within 1 minute after you turned it off and parked on a hill)
obin
[HR][/HR]​
Back in the olden days, tourists would drive from near sea level to the top of Mt. Haliakala(sp) in Hawaii. They would get up there just fine, shut the car off, then they wouldn't start again, because the mixture was too rich.
Dave.
'90 GLi
'97 Jetta GT
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,142 Posts
Re: Performance king: EFI vs. Carbs (AshlandSi)

alot of the mk1 guys swap their engine over to carb...IMO...it is easier to tune the fuel and stuff for racing purposes...EFI is pretty difficult with the computer and inectors, etc...usually u end up using a stand alone engine management...u then still need a laptop and software to tune it...they both do have probably equal capability if done right....that's just looking at it from both perspective...carb is more mechanical then EFI...my dad's chevy has like only a few electrical wires to his engine...very simple and u dun hve all the elctronics to deal with...however my mitsu truck has a carb/computer/sensor combination which is a lil much more confusing.
edit: just wanna note that mitsubishi used the same engine with a full EFI setup later on too



[Modified by 87GolfKart, 11:39 PM 12-2-2001]
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,207 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
quote:[HR][/HR]I know that's why you're asking this.[HR][/HR]​
I really want a pic of the hotwheels girls and I used this topic to keep it in the car lounge. But I had]/i] meant to post this topic. Really!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
514 Posts
Re: Performance king: EFI vs. Carbs (RJetta8V)

Simply put, carbs are direcly affected by airflow as the air itself is what determines how much fuel to pull (assuming jetting, venturi, etc...are all in spec). FI on the other hand, uses an indirect method, via a sensor which sends a signal to a controller which then based upon certain values, assigns a voltage and a period to a certain actuator (a injector in this case) to meter the proper amount of fuel for a given air flow reading (feedback loop). Direct measuring methods are always considered superior to indirect measuring under any circumstance, but the problem here lies that carbs can only provide optimum fuel delivery under optimum conditions. Change any outside parameter (temperature, altitude, etc...) and carbs can not readily adapt, and thus lose thier advantage. This in effect makes them less ideal in real world driving conditions, even with the direct measuring advantage.
The difference here really is that FI is more user friendly, in that there's nothing to really tinker with, coupled with the fact that it can compensate for differences in altitude, temperature, etc...without the user even realizing.
With all that said, I'm a big fan of carbs. Of course, I don't drive my car during the winter months, and I don't take it up in the mountains or anything, so my settings can remain what they are which makes my use of them all the easier. Besides the fact that the sight of six 45mm DCOE carbs hanging off the side of a straight six is almost pure s*x to some people and you can begin to see the reasoning.

In an ideal situation, where all parameters were strictly controlled, I would bet that carbs would be even if not superior to FI as the FI advantage would be removed from the equation and it would all boil back down to direct vs. indirect measurement.
Just my .02
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top