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Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (stoned_elvis)

Quote, originally posted by stoned_elvis »
with changing the bearings on the input, output and diff bearings. what are you guys doinging for back lash. how critical is it on these transmissions. I have a pdf covering this topic. I need to figure out how to post it.


Backlash isn't adjustable on these trans.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (Broke)

Okay
I have just had a call that the bearing I am missing is in. I will likely be doing major work on this in the next couple of days. I have two important questions.
The first is with respect to that partly broken tooth that is seen in photo 25. How critical is this one broken part of a tooth. My thought is that it is just on the syncro hub and might have been broken for a long time. I did find it on the magnet. I might have a line on a used one, but it will be weeks before it arrives and the temperature around here is dropping quickly. I would like to get this back together. Should I risk it, or wait.
Second question is with respect to my fifth gear. There is a slight groove on one side of it and the other side is flat. I think it is flat side up, (I think I can see marks from the top washer on the flat side) but can't remember now. I set it carefully aside in a direction I thought I could remember, but I didn't know I was going to be at this for a month! Now I am not sure.
 

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Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (PASHAT)

Quote, originally posted by PASHAT »
Should I risk it, or wait.

I would wait, but I'm not waiting in the cold. I've never tried using a broken sync hub, so I can't say what will happen if you use it.
Quote, originally posted by PASHAT »
Second question is with respect to my fifth gear. There is a slight groove on one side of it and the other side is flat. I think it is flat side up, (I think I can see marks from the top washer on the flat side) but can't remember now.

Correct, groove towards the trans case http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Broke
 

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Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (Old-man-Dubsy)

according to volkswagen backlash is ajustable on these trans. I won't print all of it since its copywrited. here is a quote from it.

"DRIVE AXLE - GEAR TOOTH CONTACT PATTERNS
Article Text
1990 Volkswagen Corrado
For Volkswagen Technical Site:
Copyright © 1998 Mitchell Repair Information Company, LLC
Thursday, March 23, 2000 09:43PM
ARTICLE BEGINNING
1983-93 DRIVE AXLES
Gear Tooth Contact Patterns
All Models
INSPECTION
PRELIMINARY INSPECTION
Wipe lubricant from internal parts. Rotate gears and inspect
for wear or damage. Mount dial indicator to housing, and check
backlash at several points around ring gear. Backlash must be within
specifications at all points. If no defects are found, check gear
tooth contact pattern.
GEAR TOOTH CONTACT PATTERN
NOTE: Drive pattern should be well centered on ring gear teeth.
Coast pattern should be centered, but may be slightly toward
toe of ring gear teeth.
1) Paint ring gear teeth with marking compound. Wrap cloth or
rope around drive pinion flange to act as brake. Rotate ring gear
until clear tooth contact pattern is obtained.
2) Contact pattern will indicate whether correct pinion
bearing mounting shim has been installed and if drive gear backlash
has been set properly. Backlash between drive gear and pinion must be
maintained within specified limits, until correct tooth pattern is
obtained."
 

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Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (stoned_elvis)

I take it you didn't read the article fully, it states:-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mitchell Repair Info.
General information
Gear tooth contact patterns
Please read this first
The following article is for GENERAL INFORMATION purposes only. Information does not SPECIFICALLY apply to all years, makes and models, but is to be used as a general reference guide.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like i said the 02A and 020 trans are not adjustable or even checkable for backlash. You can not move the diff gear or pinion closer or further apart from each other, not without a Tig welder and a milling machine.
 

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Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (Old-man-Dubsy)

Im just trying to make sure i have every angle covered when i put this trans back. I going to ask every question possible. I want to do this once. I've learned alot from Broke and phashat. thanks guys. but im sure ill have more questions.
 

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Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (PASHAT)

The flat side faces up on the 5th gear, the bevelled washer mark should be there. I will send pages of the manual for help. And hey, clean those parts before you put on those new bearings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (HGB)

I went to my dealer and talked to their "star" tranny mechanic. I’m not sure he knows as much as some of you, but he did tell me that the part that was broken was just a carrier for the hub. It doesn’t appear to have a function except for the hub to move on. I took a file and took the edge off the broken part of the remaining tooth, just in case, but the hub moves smoothly. With winter here, I need to get moving. I started this in my unheated shop a month ago and can’t really move the vehicle now, unless it is back together. If there is a problem, I can put it into a heated shop and start again. I am not going to replace the broken hub, although in a perfect world with time, I would definitely do so.
First of all, I disassembled everything and washed it thoroughly with solvent. Then, I put it back together to the point that I was at previously. I looked at the thrust washer between 2nd and 3rd gear and could see no difference in each side. So I looked for wear marks, and put it in the way that the wear on the washer was consistent with the surfaces on each side. I don’t think there is an up and down.


Picture 61 – Putting on third gear. I cleaned it first. (Look Broke! I really did!)

Picture 62 - Roller Bearing 02J 311-325. Hmm. I thought mine was a 02A. Note that I have removed third gear. The bearing should go on first.


Picture 63 – Look at the difference between the new bearing on the left and mine on the right…..Hope that isn’t due to the 02J versus my 02A.

Picture 64 - NO!!! The synchro hub does NOT go next. Look carefully and you will see that I am actually installing the bearing race for third gear. It took a few light taps to get the race on. I thought of heating the race, but the bearings are in a plastic sleeve and I would have had to wait for everything to cool down before I could put the bearings in.


Picture 65 – I got to the place where the synchro hub starts to mesh with the splines on the shaft, and could not drive it further, so I got the old race and used it to drive it, again gently using the synchro hub. You have to look carefully to see the second bearing race above the new one.


Picture 66 – The race fully down and in place. There is a long story of how the shaft got so dusty, but I did clean it again.

Picture 67 – The new bearings in place. I then oiled the bearings well.


Picture 68 – Installing third gear.


Picture 69 – Third gear synchro ring installs next.


Picture 70 – I could not determine which way was up with the synchro hub. However, the bearing race for third is thinner than the bearing race for fourth gear. So I measured the wear marks and think I got it right. I don’t think it really matters which way it is installed. I could see no difference between each side. Let me know if I am wrong!

Picture 71 – Measuring the other side.

Picture 72 – Installing the synchro hub. This takes more care than I knew. You must make sure that the synchro ring shown in picture 69 doesn’t get lodged in the wrong place. It must mesh with the dogs or it will lock up third gear. The synchro ring should be able to move a little after you install the hub, and third gear should be able to be turned freely with the hub up and off third gear.

Picture 73 – Installing the fourth gear synchro ring. Again, use care to align it carefully with the dogs in the synchro hub.

Picture 74 – The new fourth gear bearings.

Picture 75 – Using the old race to drive the new one. Although the following pictures don’t show this, it is important to drive this all the way prior to moving on.

Picture 76 – Install the bearings. Again, you will notice that the race is not fully seated. I thought I could use the next race to push this one on, but found that it did not work that well. I had to disassemble everything and start again. When I did my repeat, doing it, what I like to refer to as “the RIGHT way” I fully seated the race prior to putting on the bearing.

Picture 77 – Fully oil the bearing.

Picture 78 – Install fourth gear.

Picture 79 – Install the thrust washer. Again, I used wear marks to determine which way was up, but I could see no difference in each side of the thrust washers

Picture 80 – Install the bearing race for the end of the output shaft bearing.

Picture 81 – Using the old race to install the new one.

Picture 82 – The new bottom of the output shaft bearing

Picture 83 – Installing the new bearing
I went on to seat this bearing, and was going to take a picture of it fully seated and the top race fully seated, but the batteries on my camera died (imagine that!).
I will next be doing the input shaft and the preloads and putting the thing back together.
Your comments and criticisms are welcome!




Modified by PASHAT at 10:05 PM 11-7-2006
 

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Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (PASHAT)

Quote, originally posted by PASHAT »
I looked at the thrust washer between 2nd and 3rd gear and could see no difference in each side. So I looked for wear marks, and put it in the way that the wear on the washer was consistent with the surfaces on each side. I don’t think there is an up and down.

The only thrust washer on the output shaft that I noticed went on one way is under 1st gear. The other 2 make no mention of facing a particular way.
Quote, originally posted by PASHAT »
Putting on third gear. I cleaned it first. (Look Broke! I really did!)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I'm not the only one telling you it should be cleaned

I'm so pleased, I won't even freak out over the wood chips and dust on the new parts during install

(If you think I am bad, you should hear my mentor...everything in the pic not related to the trans should be off the bench, the wood bench should be bagged or covered in plastic, there should be multiple rinse tanks for the parts, lint free rags, etc.!)
Quote, originally posted by PASHAT »
Roller Bearing 02J 311-325. Hmm. I thought mine was a 02A.

You'll find 020 parts in there too, like the shims under the output shaft are an 020 part number, just like I can find air cooled Beetle parts inside the 020 (1st gear sync ring is an air cooled part in the 020), and unless I am mistaken, some of the 020 needle gear bearings are labeled with an 02A number as well. Totally normal.
Quote, originally posted by PASHAT »
I thought of heating the race, but the bearings are in a plastic sleeve and I would have had to wait for everything to cool down before I could put the bearings in.

Just so you're aware, spec is to heat the inner races of bearings to 100C or 212F prior to install. The idea is that they expand, slip on, and contract to a tight fit on the shaft.
Quote, originally posted by PASHAT »
The race fully down and in place. There is a long story of how the shaft got so dusty, but I did clean it again.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Quote, originally posted by PASHAT »
Install the thrust washer. Again, I used wear marks to determine which way was up, but I could see no difference in each side of the thrust washers

I don't think there is a difference in that one.
Looks like it is coming along http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Broke
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (Broke)

Quote, originally posted by Broke »

(If you think I am bad, you should hear my mentor...everything in the pic not related to the trans should be off the bench, the wood bench should be bagged or covered in plastic, there should be multiple rinse tanks for the parts, lint free rags, etc.!)

Broke


Your Mentor is right. I am going to have to wash things again. This will be made easier by the fact that when I was finished yesterday, I noticed a bearing race. Now you will note in the pictures that all the used bearing races have a slight discoloration to them, and the new one is bright silver. I had the tranny back together, and found a bright silver race sitting on the table. It was getting pretty late, so I have to take another look at it, but I am concerned that somewhere along the way yesterday, I put an old race back on. I can't think that I did, but I am concerned about it.
"No old parts on the table. Put them in the old bag and take them off." Why isn't there a symbol for "kicks self". I might get a chance to use that heat to 212 advice yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (stoned_elvis)

Quote, originally posted by stoned_elvis »
won't motor oil contaminate the trans oil?

Motor oil is just a thinner version of tranny oil, I understand. It will have the effect of thinning the transmission oil very slightly, in these small amount. I will be using semi synthetic oil in this, when I am done. It would definitely contaminate automatic transmission fluid.
Others might correct me on this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (PASHAT)

Well, some good and some pretty bad news tonight. Here is how it progressed.

Picture 84 - Here is how things were left. Top race fairly tight.


Picture 85 - Measuring the shim, just for kicks. 1.04-1.05


Picture 86 - Shim in the well from hell.

Picture 87 - The bearing that goes in the well from hell.

Picture 88 - Again, I used an old race to drive in the new race.


Picture 89 - Notice the gap below the race. I tapped it and it felt very well seated, and I was very concerned about this, but I found that the race is curved on the bottom and I needn’t have been so concerned….more on this later.



Picture 90 – I put oil in the well, and installed the output shaft into place.


Picture 91 - Next the case bearing for the top of the output shaft goes in.

Picture 92 – It was about here that I remembered to remove VW special tool “RAG”


Picture 93 – Torquing the output shaft bolts. Broke gave me the specs of 18 foot pounds plus a ¼ turn. I thought it was 18 newton meters, but I was wrong on this. More on this later.



Picture 94 – Torque should be 12-16. Mine was 20-22 inch pounds and felt uneven. Something was wrong.


Picture 95 – I disassemble and drive the race down. Note that once again I am driving the old race onto the new, not driving directly onto the new race.

Picture 96 – My boy tells me that he has the new shop press welded together enough to use. Time to put it to its first use and make sure that the bottom bearing is well seated. It wasn’t but it sure became well seated.

Picture 97 – Again the old race is used to drive the new one, with a flat piece of steel between it and the 20 ton jack.

Picture 98 – I pull the race in the well from hell, as I am concerned that it was not seated fully on the shim.

Picture 99 - Although it is hard to see in this picture, I ground off the ends of the puller and sharpened them for this bearing pull. The puller cost me 12.00, so I was prepared to alter it for a single purpose.
It was at this point that I tried everything again, and got a torque now of about 40 inch pounds. Things were getting worse!

Picture 100 – Then I started to focus on the other bearing. I found that I was able to move it significantly. Found the problem!

Picture 101 – Now it is fully seated!

Picture 102 – Looks better from this side too.

Picture 103 – Initial turning torque with bearings unsettled was about 12. That looks good.

Picture 104 – Turning torque drops down to about 6 after bearing settle. Hmm. Not so sure about that!

Now here is the bad news. In torquing this to 18 NM + ¼ turn (which is the WRONG amount and NOT what Broke had given me….completely my fault!!) during the last install, I broke a bolt. Those final torque settings were taken with this bolt broken, and the others torqued to 18NM and no ¼ turn.
So NOW what do I do? I have thought about welding the bolt together and then I thought about removing it ( which is REALLY hard to do without taking the output shaft all apart AGAIN, right down to the plate and starting everything all over). I thought of welding a nut to the plate but am not sure that there is clearance. YUCK! Help!!
Things were going so well until then!
 

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Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (PASHAT)

I bought the same puller for that race. Harbor freight? I could'nt justify spending $200 on blind hole pullers. man that sucks that the bolt snapped. I feel for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (stoned_elvis)

Well!

I am not sure what happened with that bolt breaking. I torqued the bolt to 18 newton Meters plusa quarter turn but found that 18 NM is only 13 foot pounds, so I was 13 foot pounds plus 1/4 turn.....I should have been under what it was supposed to be.
In any event, I have to deal with this and it really isn't a huge deal. Would be no deal at all if I could install the bolt without removing everything on the gear stack right down to first gear, but I can't see any way to do that.
I could use the holes in the tranny for a guide, pull the output shaft up about an inch but keep the other bolts in their holes, push the broken bit into its hole and weld it back together. I have about an inch of stub left to do this with. That should likely work, won't it?
Another option I have considered is to grind the bolt off at the plate, then drill through it, tap threads into it, and then bolt the right length of bolt through from the bottom.
Decisions, decisions.....any thoughts from anyone on this?
 

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Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (PASHAT)

The bolt is a special bolt and comes with the bearing plate and the bearing, the bolts are a one time use, as are just about all 1/4 turn (stretch) bolts.
I wouldn't waste my time attempting a repair on a part like that, it just gets replaced, would you really want to spend the time stripping, cleaning, drilling or welding only to find one of the others snap on reassembly. If it was from a trans where the parts aren't available then sure find a repair method that replaces all 4 but it's not.
If the job's worth doing do it properly. I don't know if this is your first trans rebuild but as i say to a trainee of mine, things going wrong is part of the learning, just make sure you backtrack to correct any faults properly, you can't expect perfection on your first go unless you're super human or working with someone that's expert enough to guide you fully.
Well that's my opinion
.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (Old-man-Dubsy)

I value your opinion. It had not occurred to me that these were one time use stretch bolts that should not be stretched twice.
How the heck does VW expect you to replace the shim with the right size when you need to undo the stretch bolts after measuring to replace the washer with the right size shim. Surely they don't expect to replace this part, which costs about 100.00, each time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Re: Pictures of Full 02A Bearing Replacement - You can help!! (PASHAT)

Is replying to yourself one step away from talking to yourself?
In thinking this through more, those stretch bolts must be pretty important to get preload right. If I torque them when they have already been stretched, I expect that they will not have proper pressure and therefore the preload will be off. But if it within spec, will this matter? Yes, I know my preload is too low as it sits. Can't the torque on the bolts be used to set the proper preload, if you are using the right size of shim?
 
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