VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum banner
1 - 20 of 59 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,764 Posts
Re: Please post pics of independant throttle body 16v's (primogti)

Interesting..
Now if you were thinking about FI, and built a plenum on the end of the airhorns.. would you get a decent vacuum signal from the plenum to use digi1 for management?
Also, I was wondering as I am not too knowledgeable about the ITB concept. Is the advantage of ITB's the fact that the butterfly flap is located so close to the intake port on the head? Or is it just the simple fact that the individual intake ports each have their own flap?
I'm thinking.. if you could build an intake using ITB's, where the actual TB is located after a plenum, but having long runners from the TB to the head. Or would it be better to build an intake manifold with a plenum, then long runners then the ITB's that bolt to the head?
Am I making sense? I'm just trying to think of a bunch of different possibilities here, and would they make improvements.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Re: Please post pics of independant throttle body 16v's (54321)

How much gain you should have with this, including the incredible sound?

Do you need to change something else to have this?
What's the difference between this and normal intake?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,418 Posts
Re: Please post pics of independant throttle body 16v's (Quik1.8T)

What's the difference? Just look at the size of a standard single t/b and then multiply 45mm x 4 = 180! The stock 16v t/b isn't even near half that size, so you're MASSIVELY increasing the amount of air the engine can induce. This means, though, that you must mod the engine to be able to accomodate the air - inhale and exhale it. My engine is temporarily internally standard with quad 45's and is not near it's true power potential.
Camshafts with higher lift and longer duration, headwork and a good ECU and exhaust are vital...

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,764 Posts
Re: Please post pics of independant throttle body 16v's (H8SV8S)

What about my ideas above? Does anyone know if they're workable?
Just curious... and wasn't being patient today either

Essentially I would be looking to use ITB's for the air flow gain, but using it with FI and also trying to keep stock runner length.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
469 Posts
Re: Please post pics of independant throttle body 16v's (H8SV8S)


hey, if you could lend some info on the heat exchanger surrounding your exaust manifold, that wuold be great!! I assume it just displaces the warm air with cooler air, what does it use for vaccume? Looks great too!
thanks,
Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,418 Posts
Re: Please post pics of independant throttle body 16v's (Eldorado56)

not sure if this is how you quote but anyway...
Quote »
hey, if you could lend some info on the heat exchanger surrounding your exaust manifold, that wuold be great!! I assume it just displaces the warm air with cooler air, what does it use for vaccume? Looks great too!
thanks,
Dave

That heat shield is actually a standard ABF engine product. I don't know if other 16v heads (non-ABF) have bolt holes to mount it to - I need to find this out as I'm getting a 9a head and don't want to lose the shield...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,069 Posts
Re: Please post pics of independant throttle body 16v's (H8SV8S)

what would it involve to run this setup (which looks to be a smokin deal for it's completeness) on digi1?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,764 Posts
Re: Please post pics of independant throttle body 16v's (Mbiggy)

Quote, originally posted by Mbiggy »
what would it involve to run this setup (which looks to be a smokin deal for it's completeness) on digi1?

That sorta of relates to my questions above regarding constructing an intake manifold using ITB's.
The thing to consider is that with digi1, you need a MAP sensor to detect air pressure. On a regular digi1 setup this sensor is located before the TB. But with ITB's as shown above, there is no common intake pipe feeding all 4 air horns. This isn't to say you couldn't construct one though...
Someone (I think it was in the FI forum) had constructed a short runner intake w/ plenum feeding ITB's on a crossfow, or maybe a 16v in a turbo setup. He used digi1 too, so it seems that this might be possible. I'm mostly curious on the disadvantages of not having a plenum, and of having such short intake runners. My goal is to produce a daily driver car, but I am interested in exploring the potential of ITB's with a turbo to create a very capable car. I 'm just looking for more information on the intake designs, specifically the pro's and cons of short vs long runners and use of a plenum when ITB's are also implemented.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,407 Posts
Re: Please post pics of independant throttle body 16v's (Action Jackson)

Quote, originally posted by Action Jackson »

The thing to consider is that with digi1, you need a MAP sensor to detect air pressure. On a regular digi1 setup this sensor is located before the TB. But with ITB's as shown above, there is no common intake pipe feeding all 4 air horns. This isn't to say you couldn't construct one though...

Yup, you need a common plenum for the MAP sensor to reference. Here's how it's done on my engine:


See that thingamajig with the blue tubes (air lines) running into it? My MAP sensor is plumbed into there as well as my brake booster.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,043 Posts
Are the ITB's posted above for $1400 a cmplete kits? if so that sounds like a great deal to me the only other company i kow of is the badger 5 kit and that is like $2500. what does the kit posted above use for engine managment?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,418 Posts
There's a heck of a lot more to buy than just the t/b kit to get it all to work AND work well!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42,796 Posts
Re: Please post pics of independant throttle body 16v's (Action Jackson)

Quote, originally posted by Action Jackson »

I'm mostly curious on the disadvantages of not having a plenum, and of having such short intake runners.
I 'm just looking for more information on the intake designs, specifically the pro's and cons of short vs long runners and use of a plenum when ITB's are also implemented.

the disadvantage of not having a plenum and having such short runners is your loss of low end torque. and throw on top of that other things that will exagerate the engines lack of low end, likes big cams, and you dont have power above a few grand.
if youre looking on information on intake design, check out 4 stroke performance tuning, by alexander graham bell, and also his forced induction performance tuning book. theyre both awesome and loaded with equations that you can apply to your own motor and goals. in fact a buddy of mine and i are building a carbon fiber 16v intake manifold partly using mr bells theory and math, as well as a few other sources.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
827 Posts
Re: Please post pics of independant throttle body 16v's (H8SV8S)

Quote, originally posted by H8SV8S »
What's the difference? Just look at the size of a standard single t/b and then multiply 45mm x 4 = 180! The stock 16v t/b isn't even near half that size, so you're MASSIVELY increasing the amount of air the engine can induce. This means, though, that you must mod the engine to be able to accomodate the air - inhale and exhale it. My engine is temporarily internally standard with quad 45's and is not near it's true power potential.
Camshafts with higher lift and longer duration, headwork and a good ECU and exhaust are vital...


Could you reveal your setup?? Who makes this stuff???
Everything seems to be in proportion
Nice setup
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,764 Posts
Re: Please post pics of independant throttle body 16v's (ValveCoverGasket)

ValveCoverGasket:
Cool, I love a good read http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I owe you a
 
1 - 20 of 59 Posts
Top