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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sorry if this a repost. In the new Car and Driver under Information Dirt road there is a quick blurb about Porsche dropping the traditional torque converter auto in upcoming models and they will start using the DSG trannie from VAG. I think this is a great move. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to Porsche.
 

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Re: Porsche to use DSG (NBracer8)

I have a silly question...
Wasn't there some talk about the DSG not being able to handle high torque numbers? Specifically, I remember saying that anyone planning on using F/I on an R32 would not want to get the DSG because there isn't away to upgrade the clutch.
Wouldn't that make DSG somewhat uesless in a Porsche? Unless they used stronger materials in their version than the VW version...
 

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Re: Porsche to use DSG (NBracer8)

is it a good news for VAG - more income for selling this tech??
 

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Re: Porsche to use DSG (cougar)

Quote, originally posted by cougar »
I have a silly question...
Wasn't there some talk about the DSG not being able to handle high torque numbers? Specifically, I remember saying that anyone planning on using F/I on an R32 would not want to get the DSG because there isn't away to upgrade the clutch.
Wouldn't that make DSG somewhat uesless in a Porsche? Unless they used stronger materials in their version than the VW version...

Audi used the original versions of DSG in their rally cars which put out between 400-900hp. The Bugatti Veryon will use a version as well and it's output is close to 1000hp. The issue with the clutch is packaging and space which are limitations on it's size and ability to handle power.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: Porsche to use DSG (Avus)

Quote, originally posted by Avus »
is it a good news for VAG - more income for selling this tech??

Good point. Just like how most cpmanies make mmoney off of their new technology. For instance GM allowing other car makers the use of onstar.
As for the high torque capabilities of DSG I am unsure.
 

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Re: Porsche to use DSG (NBracer8)

so we'll be rid of the craptronic forever?
yay!
obin
 

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Re: Porsche to use DSG (cougar)

Quote, originally posted by cougar »
I have a silly question...
Wasn't there some talk about the DSG not being able to handle high torque numbers? Specifically, I remember saying that anyone planning on using F/I on an R32 would not want to get the DSG because there isn't away to upgrade the clutch.
Wouldn't that make DSG somewhat uesless in a Porsche? Unless they used stronger materials in their version than the VW version...

the dsg tranny can be built to handle different amounts of power, however such as on the r32, it was designed for that different aplication. its a good trick by the factory to keep the amount of after the fact tuning down to a minimum, that is untill someone figures out a way around it.
 

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Re: Porsche to use DSG ([email protected])

Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »
Audi used the original versions of DSG in their rally cars which put out between 400-900hp. The Bugatti Veryon will use a version as well and it's output is close to 1000hp. The issue with the clutch is packaging and space which are limitations on it's size and ability to handle power.

You shouldn't throw the Veyron 7-speed DSG in the mix with the 6-speed DSG transmissions. The 6-speeds were designed and developed by Borg-Warner (most likely in Germany), the 7-speed was designed and developed by Ricardo plc (consulting engineering firm) in the UK. Link to Ricardo Article
 

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Re: Porsche to use DSG (Avus)

Quote, originally posted by Avus »
is it a good news for VAG - more income for selling this tech??

I believe that BorgWarner is the manufacturer of the transmission. VAG is simply the first manufacturer to use it. Here is the text of their press release from earlier this year:
Fuel Economy, Convenience, Sporty Feel Are Hallmarks of New-Concept Technology From Transmission Pioneer
CHICAGO, Jan. 8 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The first application of BorgWarner DualTronic(TM), the company's wet-clutch and control-system technology for a new concept automated transmission, will debut on the VW Golf R32 DSG beginning next month, and on the Audi TT 3.2 beginning in March. The new technology enables a manual transmission to evolve and perform like an automatic transmission, yet deliver significantly improved vehicle fuel economy over automatic transmissions of today. The initials DSG stand for direct-shifting gearbox.
"BorgWarner, whose affiliates introduced one of the industry's first automatic transmissions in the 1950s, is again redefining the driving experience through innovation," said John F. Fiedler, BorgWarner Chairman and CEO. "By combining our electrohydraulic controls know-how with our advancements in wet friction materials and friction systems, we've created a formula that now enables commercialization of an idea that has existed since the 1980s."
Fiedler said the new concept was conceived originally with the European driver in mind - one who values an enthusiastic and sporty driving experience, but who continues to demand improved fuel efficiency and the convenience of the automatic when navigating congested cities.
However, with the new system, starting and shifting characteristics can be easily adapted to achieve a very smooth feel that rivals the conventional automatic transmission generally preferred outside of Europe. BorgWarner expects the demand for this technology to grow from virtually nothing today to 18 percent of the European passenger car market by 2010, and to gain a foothold in North America and Japan during that time.
"BorgWarner DualTronic technology offers attractive features for the 80 percent of Europeans who drive manual transmissions and pay up to $5 a gallon for gas - and for North American drivers who want improved responsiveness with lower fuel consumption," Fiedler said. Development of the system for VW was the result of collaboration between engineers throughout BorgWarner's network of technology centers, and centered at the BorgWarner European Advanced Transmission Development Center in Ketsch, Germany.
Fiedler said BorgWarner expects to announce at least two more customers for DualTronic in 2003. "Combining our wet-clutch expertise with our advanced control strategies has resulted in a very exciting and high-potential new technology from BorgWarner's Driveline Group," he said. "DualTronic is an integral part of our growth strategy." The business with VW and Audi is part of the $1.2 billion in new business for 2003 through 2005 announced by BorgWarner late last year.
 

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Re: Porsche to use DSG (NBracer8)

That's probably explain why I heard Audi will be dropping Tiptronic in 05/06 as earliest for DSG. In the near future, DSG, Multitronic and shift shifts are only trannies available in Audi.
 

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Re: Porsche to use DSG (Avus)

Porsche won't use DSG they'll use PDK. Huh you say?
Time for a history lesson...
Taken from http://perso.club-internet.fr/....html
"Audi also introduced a new gearbox, used in the non-championship Austrian Semperit Rally. The PDK (Porsche Doppel Klutch) system had been taken from Porsche's worldbeating 956/962 Group C/IMSA racing coupe. The trick five-ratio 'box brought no luck to the AngloGerman crew of Waiter Rohrl and Phil Short, who cartwheeled the spectacular monster down a Welsh hillside before any firm conclusions could be drawn about its automatic action. Today private collectors find it impossible to replicate the PDK system; both Audi and Porsche have yet to release these expensive forerunners of current transmissions for sale at any price, although a direct descendant of the system is being used in the TT 3.2"
To summerize...Porsche first in the 956/962, borrowed by Audi for the rally cars, finally in a VW, the 3.2 TT. From the first two examples you can see it shouldn't be two difficult to engineer these units to handle a lot of horsepower.
Cheers
Chris


Modified by CBJ at 1:38 PM 6-30-2003
 

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Re: Porsche to use DSG (CBJ)

Quote, originally posted by CBJ »
To summerize...Porsche first in the 956/962, borrowed by Audi for the rally cars, finally in a VW, the 3.2 TT. From the first two examples you can see it shouldn't be two difficult to engineer these units to handle a lot of horsepower.
Cheers
Chris

i remember the PDK. i didn't know it was related to the DSG though.
obin
 
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