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Re: Pulled out my 2002 dbl-DIN CD, pics & wiring diagram (UKAUSSI)

The new "K-wire" is now two wires you don't want to connect to anything: the two CAN wires.
CAN stands for Controller Area Network, and is a data network that links together various subsystems in the car, like the power window/lock modules, the ECU, the climate control system, etc.
It is possible to decode the CAN data to figure out the dim, ignition codes, etc., but it requires the proper equipment and isn't trivial. I might take a stab at it one day, but not any time soon.
 

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Re: Pulled out my 2002 dbl-DIN CD, pics & wiring diagram (vwgtirob)

Rob:
Thanks for posting that information about the CAN and K wire, that is new for me, and very timely, because I am now in the process of trying to hook up my cell phone so it works through this new Double DIN radio.
Could you clarify one thing for me, please? Did the 'CAN' wire replace the 'K' wire? If so, about when was the production changeover? I have a 2002 Golf TDI that was manufactured in Brazil in August of 2001. Is there a way I can easily determine if it uses the 'CAN' wire or the 'K' wire?
Lastly, do you know how far down (into minor systems) the CAN / K wires have influence? For example, would the rainsensor mirror involve one of these two wires, because it needs to know the transmission selector position?
Michael
 

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Re: Pulled out my 2002 dbl-DIN CD, pics & wiring diagram (PanEuropean)

PanEurpean:
If you have the same HU as I do then you will have the same pinouts on the back. This shows the orange/green and orange/brown as the CAN wires.
Also, don't know anything about cellphone hook-ups - sorry.


[Modified by UKAUSSI, 10:09 AM 12-4-2001]
 

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Re: Pulled out my 2002 dbl-DIN CD, pics & wiring diagram (PanEuropean)

quote:[HR][/HR]Rob:
Thanks for posting that information about the CAN and K wire, that is new for me, and very timely, because I am now in the process of trying to hook up my cell phone so it works through this new Double DIN radio.
Could you clarify one thing for me, please? Did the 'CAN' wire replace the 'K' wire? If so, about when was the production changeover? I have a 2002 Golf TDI that was manufactured in Brazil in August of 2001. Is there a way I can easily determine if it uses the 'CAN' wire or the 'K' wire?
Lastly, do you know how far down (into minor systems) the CAN / K wires have influence? For example, would the rainsensor mirror involve one of these two wires, because it needs to know the transmission selector position?
Michael[HR][/HR]​
Apparently, if and only if you've got the double DIN unit, you've got the CAN wires and the new harness, otherwise you've got the K wire and old harness.
The two CAN wires replace the ignition switch wire, the illumination wire, the K wire, and probably some others I'm forgetting.
As far as what systems they are integrated into, that's up to the manufacturer, but they're likely to be a part of every controller in the car.
 

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Re: Pulled out my 2002 dbl-DIN CD, pics & wiring diagram (vwgtirob)

UKAussie and VW GTI Rob:
Thanks a lot for your helpful information, it is greatly appreciated. I'm going to go up to the dealer today and see if he has any tech bulletins explaining the new radio wiring. I'll post anything I can find.
Michael
 

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Re: Pulled out my 2002 dbl-DIN CD, pics & wiring diagram (vwgtirob)

vwgtirob:
You said:
>>Apparently, if and only if you've got the double DIN unit, you've got the CAN wires and the new harness, otherwise you've got the K wire and old harness.<<
Can you say where you got this information? Thanks.
 

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Re: Pulled out my 2002 dbl-DIN CD, pics & wiring diagram (NewbieBaby)

One LOVELY side affect of replacing the double DIN unit with an aftermarket radio.... the VW service analyser will not be able to talk to the car's computer unless the factory stereo is hooked up to the harness. Apparently, the stereo completes the test circuit.
This means that those of us who switch HUs are faced with the grim specter of having to reattach the factory HU everytime we bring in the car for service.
Unless.... somebody knows a way to overcome this ridiculous situation.




[Modified by jeanmp3, 5:03 AM 12-5-2001]
 

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Re: Pulled out my 2002 dbl-DIN CD, pics & wiring diagram (jeanmp3)

quote:[HR][/HR]One LOVELY side affect of replacing the double DIN unit with an aftermarket radio.... the VW service analyser will not be able to talk to the car's computer unless the factory stereo is hooked up to the harness. Apparently, the stereo completes the test circuit.[HR][/HR]​
Absolutely not true. The radio does not complete anything. The dealer will refuse to connect their diagnostic tool to the car because the data wire to the radio can ruin their tool if it's connected to an aftermarket unit. The solution is to make sure the data wire is not connected to the aftermarket unit. I have documentation in the glovebox from the stereo shop stating that the data wire is not connected and the stereo was installed professionally. The dealer had no problem hooking up my car to their diagnostics.
If you do it yourself, take polaroids of the install showing the data wire not connected. Or swap it each time if you're comfortable doing that. Then they definitely can't give you any problems at all.


[Modified by ChrisMD, 12:23 AM 12-5-2001]
 

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Re: Pulled out my 2002 dbl-DIN CD, pics & wiring diagram (ChrisMD)

Hi Chris,
I brought my 2002 Passat in for service this morning. It used to have the double DIN premium 6 unit described in this post. It now has an aftermarket head unit. The factory harness is completely unused. Nothing is connected to it. The power for my new HU is wired straight to the battery, and the ignition wire is wired to the fusebox.
The VW analyser was unable to talk to the computer of my car. They told me that it was because the factory HU was disconnected. I watched as they hooked up the analyser after I showed them the factory harness wasn't used. It wasn't working.
It's a bit of a mystery. Perhaps there is another explanation. I am going to return to the service guys with my factory head unit connected to see if that solves the problem.
 

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Re: Pulled out my 2002 dbl-DIN CD, pics & wiring diagram (jeanmp3)

I have an idea for this problem of the VAG not being able to read the ecu without the hu in place.It'll involve cut/splicing of the factory harness,though.
(1)Cut the factory connectors from the harness.
(2)Lengthen the wires so they will reach down under the dash.
(3)Splice the factory connectors back onto the ends.
(4)Tap into those lengthened wires at the dash cut out,for use with the new hu.

Now you have the fac hu connectors under the dash.If you have to go to the dealer,just temporarily connect the factory hu under the dash.Turn on the power,and re-enter the security code.

That should be a viable option.Just take a little work.
 

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Re: Pulled out my 2002 dbl-DIN CD, pics & wiring diagram (jeanmp3)

Jeanmp3,
I'm sorry. I didn't realize that the new units were so different. I have an early 2002 that had the original single-din Monsoon. Still, it sounds really fishy that it doesn't work.
I'm not saying that I don't believe you, but I have to wonder if there's something the dealer doesn't know?? Anyone have similar experiences?
Did you have the aftermarket installed professionally? If so, I would check with them, maybe they can do a little research. My installer did all kinds of research for me before I had the Alpine installed. (Can't get that kind of service from Circuit City.
)
 

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Re: Pulled out my 2002 dbl-DIN CD, pics & wiring diagram (newbiewithGTI2002)

Has anyone came out with a wiring harness yet for 2002 Jettas with Double Din Headunit? I want to replace my double din with a in dash dvd player and tv hu, but I am hesitant to do so, b/c of the complications with the CAN CAN wires? I don't want to splice any factory wires. Thanks in advance.
 

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Re: Pulled out my 2002 dbl-DIN CD, pics & wiring diagram (UKAUSSI)

Thanks for the informative pix and info above...
One small bit of insight... The CAN bus is a form of internal software communication used within the Auto Industry. Two reasonable GUESSES, based on what I know about CAN, are:
1. The HU does, indeed, need to be connected for the analytical equipment used by VW to work. Analogous to IEEE-488 or RS-485 communication loops, the HU represents a "node" or piece of equipment on the CAN bus, and test equipment needs to be instructed that it is not there; perhaps not a test mode that stock VW test gear has enabled. Likewise, when you plug and unplug a piece of USB bus equipment, it has to go through the "discovery" mode where it is recognized on your Computer.
2. CAN is very different from the K wire protocol. Whatever applied about having the K wire connected or not connected during test modes likely does not have anything to do with the set of questions above re: the K wire.
I don't deal with CAN bus issues every day like my work pals, so I can't say just yet on how one avoids having to connect the HU back in during Service visits.
It's much easier on Car Manufacturers to send software commands via the CAN bus to dim HU illumination lights, for example, than to run a separate Illumination wire. So, the CAN bus allows much more Command and Control activity on a wire pair w/o running wires for each little Auto function. This saves money and wire harness weight. Sounds silly but, yes, a lot of little incremental savings is how Manufacturers cut down on cost and weight, not thinking of how these designs affects things like Aftermarket sound system flexibility. Hopefully, some VAG wizard will tell us all what the changes in the test mode commands are, and you can then inform the VW Service Techs on what to do to get around these test roadblocks.
 
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