question about distributorless ignition systems
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Joined
·
14,303 Posts
Re: question about distributorless ignition systems (Chapel)
Electromotive makes an unit for 4 cylinder engines. The Electromotive ignition system is a crank-fire design that uses a magnetic sensor and a timing wheel that mounts to the crankshaft. The HPV-1 ignition fires two cylinders simultaneously before every TDC, one while on its compression stroke and the other on its exhaust stroke.
The crankshaft timing wheel is a 60 tooth unit, and the magnetic sensor detects the teeth on the wheel and sends the signal to the Electromotive unit. The firing of the sparkplugs is directly from the coils mounted on the Electromotive unit.
I recently bought one but have not installed it yet on my race Wabbit. Currently using a MSD unit in conjunction with a VW electronic dizzy. Hope this helps, WWR.
Electromotive makes an unit for 4 cylinder engines. The Electromotive ignition system is a crank-fire design that uses a magnetic sensor and a timing wheel that mounts to the crankshaft. The HPV-1 ignition fires two cylinders simultaneously before every TDC, one while on its compression stroke and the other on its exhaust stroke.
The crankshaft timing wheel is a 60 tooth unit, and the magnetic sensor detects the teeth on the wheel and sends the signal to the Electromotive unit. The firing of the sparkplugs is directly from the coils mounted on the Electromotive unit.
I recently bought one but have not installed it yet on my race Wabbit. Currently using a MSD unit in conjunction with a VW electronic dizzy. Hope this helps, WWR.
Joined
·
54,743 Posts
Re: question about distributorless ignition systems (WackyWabbitRacer)
how much was yours?
and how did you like the MSD one?
if you wanna sell I may wanna buy
quote:[HR][/HR]The HPV-1 ignition fires two cylinders simultaneously before every TDC, one while on its compression stroke and the other on its exhaust stroke.
The crankshaft timing wheel is a 60 tooth unit, and the magnetic sensor detects the teeth on the wheel and sends the signal to the Electromotive unit. The firing of the sparkplugs is directly from the coils mounted on the Electromotive unit.
[HR][/HR]
thats good right?The crankshaft timing wheel is a 60 tooth unit, and the magnetic sensor detects the teeth on the wheel and sends the signal to the Electromotive unit. The firing of the sparkplugs is directly from the coils mounted on the Electromotive unit.
[HR][/HR]
how much was yours?
and how did you like the MSD one?
if you wanna sell I may wanna buy
Joined
·
14,303 Posts
Re: question about distributorless ignition systems (Chapel)
The simultaneously firing of two cylinders keeps the plugs cleaner during idle and low power running.....a necessity on a race engine. So yep, it is a good thing.
I paid $600 for a complete Electromotive unit with 3 wheels, 2 sensors, and two Bertils sensor holders, plus plug wires and miscellaneous stuff. The unit is about $450 to $475 neighbor but then you need all of the other stuff. The Bertils holders are hard to find for a VeeDub engine. Nope don't want to sell the Electromotive.
For a street, modified engine, I would probably recommend the MDS with the VW electronic ignition. Works great and is a whole lot cheaper...in the price range of $165 to $200. Cheers, WWR.
The simultaneously firing of two cylinders keeps the plugs cleaner during idle and low power running.....a necessity on a race engine. So yep, it is a good thing.
I paid $600 for a complete Electromotive unit with 3 wheels, 2 sensors, and two Bertils sensor holders, plus plug wires and miscellaneous stuff. The unit is about $450 to $475 neighbor but then you need all of the other stuff. The Bertils holders are hard to find for a VeeDub engine. Nope don't want to sell the Electromotive.
For a street, modified engine, I would probably recommend the MDS with the VW electronic ignition. Works great and is a whole lot cheaper...in the price range of $165 to $200. Cheers, WWR.
Re: question about distributorless ignition systems (Chapel)
Unless it's a 13:1 motor (or higher) that runs to 8k+ rpm, there's no need to use an Electromotive system. It's just spending a lot of money that you don't need. You can stick and MSD in if you want to put a rev-limiter on the car, but the OEM Bosch stuff is pretty damn good, especially for a street car.
Unless it's a 13:1 motor (or higher) that runs to 8k+ rpm, there's no need to use an Electromotive system. It's just spending a lot of money that you don't need. You can stick and MSD in if you want to put a rev-limiter on the car, but the OEM Bosch stuff is pretty damn good, especially for a street car.
Joined
·
54,743 Posts
Re: question about distributorless ignition systems (millerwj)
whats the price for it?
quote:[HR][/HR]Unless it's a 13:1 motor (or higher) that runs to 8k+ rpm, there's no need to use an Electromotive system. It's just spending a lot of money that you don't need. You can stick and MSD in if you want to put a rev-limiter on the car, but the OEM Bosch stuff is pretty damn good, especially for a street car.[HR][/HR]
yeah, I may want that MSD thingwhats the price for it?
Joined
·
14,303 Posts
Re: question about distributorless ignition systems (Chapel)
The price varies from vendor to vendor. If you want to use a MSD, you probably will want the MSD 6A (Universal for 4, 6, & 8 cylinders) or the MSD 6AL (Universal for 4, 6, & 8 cylinders with built-in RPM control). The 6AL uses a RPM chip that plugs into the MSD box for a rev limiter.
As Dr. Miller said, a MSD or Electromotive unit is not really need for even a modified street engine. The stock VW electronic ignition system is more than adequate for most street applications. When I was running SCCA Improved Touring (IT) with the Wabbit, I only used the VW electronic ignition, and it worked very well. Cheers, WWR.
The price varies from vendor to vendor. If you want to use a MSD, you probably will want the MSD 6A (Universal for 4, 6, & 8 cylinders) or the MSD 6AL (Universal for 4, 6, & 8 cylinders with built-in RPM control). The 6AL uses a RPM chip that plugs into the MSD box for a rev limiter.
As Dr. Miller said, a MSD or Electromotive unit is not really need for even a modified street engine. The stock VW electronic ignition system is more than adequate for most street applications. When I was running SCCA Improved Touring (IT) with the Wabbit, I only used the VW electronic ignition, and it worked very well. Cheers, WWR.
Joined
·
54,743 Posts
Re: question about distributorless ignition systems (WackyWabbitRacer)
someone told me that the 6AL systems will help a car idle better by providing a longer spark as well as helping to combust higher octane fuels
and I guess the 6A/6AL systems work in conjunction with the stock system?
how so?
does it plug into the distributor and just give it a boost?
someone told me that the 6AL systems will help a car idle better by providing a longer spark as well as helping to combust higher octane fuels
and I guess the 6A/6AL systems work in conjunction with the stock system?
how so?
does it plug into the distributor and just give it a boost?
Joined
·
14,303 Posts
Re: question about distributorless ignition systems (Chapel)
A MSD is installed electrically between the ignition coil and the distributor. The dizzy triggers the MSD (Multiple Spark Discharge) which in turn tells the coil to discharge. So instead of just one discharge to a cylinder on a compression stroke, there are in theory multiple discharges to that cylinder.
Have not read anything that a MSD helps a car idle better or burn higher octane fuels. As a matter of fact, I honestly can not tell any big difference with a MSD installed in the car. Perhaps a dyno test might show a slight HP improvement, but from the seat of the pants viewpoint, I can not perceive any HP gains. The race Wabbit would run 7500 rpm with the stock VW electronic ignition and it still runs 7500 rpm with the MSD installed.
My recommendation is to use the VW ignition and save your money for other more tangible HP improvements. Cheers & Beers, WWR.
![]()
A MSD is installed electrically between the ignition coil and the distributor. The dizzy triggers the MSD (Multiple Spark Discharge) which in turn tells the coil to discharge. So instead of just one discharge to a cylinder on a compression stroke, there are in theory multiple discharges to that cylinder.
Have not read anything that a MSD helps a car idle better or burn higher octane fuels. As a matter of fact, I honestly can not tell any big difference with a MSD installed in the car. Perhaps a dyno test might show a slight HP improvement, but from the seat of the pants viewpoint, I can not perceive any HP gains. The race Wabbit would run 7500 rpm with the stock VW electronic ignition and it still runs 7500 rpm with the MSD installed.
My recommendation is to use the VW ignition and save your money for other more tangible HP improvements. Cheers & Beers, WWR.
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!