[Alec's TT]

So I happened into a deal. A very good deal. I have the chance to buy an r32 motor, trans, tuned ecu and wire harness will all accessories and everything I need to swap it into my TT all for $1k. The motor has a rod knock. It was ran bone dry after an oil housing cracked. It didn't start knocking untill a few weeks and few k miles later. The oil on the dip stick has some light glitter to it. If I pull the pan, throw a used bearing from a 2.8 I have laying around and seal it up. Then I can start it and put a filter and fresh oil. Run it for 5 minutes and change the oil. Say repeat that 3 or 4 times, will that get most of the particles out of the motor? I'm on a tight budget because the money I had saved to buy a swap just went into buying my first house that I close ok on in a few weeks. Unless someone wants you buy a R32 shell I can trade my motorcycle straight up for the whole car and drive it right on my trailer.

 

[Lionborg]

You’ll have no chance of knowing if the crank has been damaged.
This is not going to end good. Used bearings? Please don’t

 

[Mic17a]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you buy this you need to get this thing torn down and everything checked/rebuilt or just avoid it alltogether. I spun rod bearing number 5 in my turbo R, and drove it for 15 mins home after it started knocking. The crank was trash, number 5 rod was trash, and my cylinder head and cams were all trash because of damage caused by debris from the bearing. I ended up replacing the entire motor.

 

[Joseph_R2D2]

Don't do it! I did the same to mine but at the start it sounded weird so tore it all apart. That $1k will turn into $2-3k easy and yes never re used those bearings.

 

[Alec's TT]

I picked the car up to check it over. Haven't bought anything yet. I pulled the pan and it has 2 spun rod bearings. I might still buy the full swap for 1k and slap in a r32 out of a touareg in it. That's a complete r32 swap for 2k! I would post picks but Idk how after photo bucket robbed us all...

 

[Mic17a]

I picked the car up to check it over. Haven't bought anything yet. I pulled the pan and it has 2 spun rod bearings. I might still buy the full swap for 1k and slap in a r32 out of a touareg in it. That's a complete r32 swap for 2k! I would post picks but Idk how after photo bucket robbed us all...

The Touareg block will not work in a transversely mounted chassis. The Touareg block doesn't have the holes for the passenger side engine mount to bolt up.


I paid $1500 shipped for a Mk5 R32 long block from Volky Auto Dismantlers. I was able to use most of my parts from my Mk4 motor to convert it to be usable in a Mk4.

 

[Alec's TT]

Some touareg blocks do actually have those holes drilled, if they don't, you can have them drilled by a machine shop. That is the only difference. I did end up purchasing the swap. I got all the hoses, ecu, both harnesses, motor, trans, new oem axles, new oem r32 brakes with calipers, all accessories and downpipe for $1k! It's pretty much turn key minus I need to order bearings and rings, strip it down and have it cleaned! Thanks for the fast advice! Also does anyone know if maestro works well on the R32? My ecu has a tune but I need an immo defeat and emissions delete. I will probably boost it next year and if maestro can do all that on this motor thay would be awesome. I'm familiar with it from my 1.8t I had before.

 

[Auzlndr]

I would post picks but Idk how after photo bucket robbed us all...

http://imgur.com

 

[Mic17a]

Some touareg blocks do actually have those holes drilled, if they don't, you can have them drilled by a machine shop. That is the only difference. I did end up purchasing the swap. I got all the hoses, ecu, both harnesses, motor, trans, new oem axles, new oem r32 brakes with calipers, all accessories and downpipe for $1k! It's pretty much turn key minus I need to order bearings and rings, strip it down and have it cleaned! Thanks for the fast advice! Also does anyone know if maestro works well on the R32? My ecu has a tune but I need an immo defeat and emissions delete. I will probably boost it next year and if maestro can do all that on this motor thay would be awesome. I'm familiar with it from my 1.8t I had before.

Not sure if Maestro is even offered for the 3.2 motors.

Now do the Touareg engines use the same timing components as the Mk4 or are they shared with the Mk5 family of engines? (IE cam sprockets, exhaust cam, etc etc). That's interesting, I didn't know some of the blocks did have the holes. I could have saved a couple of hundred dollars with my motor replacement.

 

[Alec's TT]

See post 18 here. That thread has all the answers

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4598762#/topics/4598762?page=2

 

[SGelshawno]

Quoting that for good info

this thread is OLD AF but its one of the first hits that come up for differences between the blocks. I have multiples of each in my possession and have done a lot of 24v builds including hybrid builds... how here is a brain dump for the community... this is backed with hands-on-parts experience so if you disagree with some points, then you're probably wrong, sorry.


... in no particular order at all, and excluding FSI R32 in all cases:

1. blocks are same casting. touareg and other SUV 3.2's have the bosses for transverse mounting points on passenger side, but the holes are not drilled or tapped. it is 100% safe to do this yourself, just line it up carefully.
2. crankshafts are the same. actually side bar, but a 12v and a 24v (2.8) have same part number crankshaft, just different timing wheel. the 3.2 is obviously a larger crankshaft but with same wheel as 2.8 24v.
3. all vr6 engines use same main bearings and main bolts/studs.
4. all 12v/24v/r32 use same oil pump up to 2006 (and can exchange different pans) except the SUV's and phaetons which use a very deep pump to match their deep pans. Phaetons have less deep pans and fit audi longitudinal A4/S4 swaps perfectly without modifying and use a slightly different oil pump again. these are liquid diamond flavoured gold if you ever find one... sell it and buy a house with the proceeds, lol.
5. all VR6 blocks have the 'legacy mounts" which were originally mk3 rear block mounts, and are no longer legacy, as all modern VR6's in longitudinal applications are using these again... will be great for R44 future swaps into mk2's lol.
6. cams in all non-FSI R32 engines are the same... actually they are the same part numbers as 24v (BDF) and equivalent blocks too... no difference, sorry.
7. cylinder heads for all non-FSI R32 engines are 100% identical (at least in north america and my experience). fun fact... the intake flange on 3.2 is vertical... 2.8 has an angled inlet and is the real reason you cannot swap 2.8-3.2 intake manifolds... would either be an interference fit or put it up through the hood depending on what's swapping onto what... the flange itself is compatible for things like short runner intakes, but be aware that it will tilt up and closer to the head on a 24v 2.8... some fuel rails won't work like this.
8. knock sensors and crank position sensors on all 24v engines are the same.
9. valve covers on 2.8 and 3.2 (non-FSI) are all interchangeble, but have different brackets hanging off of them depending what they came on.
10. exhaust flanges for 2.8 and 3.2 are the same, but the 3.2 has 2x studs in a slightly different place. you can just drill for the difference in a swap... don't believe me? say i'm a liar haha... well the mk4 R32 and the 24v 2.8's share identical exhaust manifold part numbers, but the limited production R32 ones were modified and part number not changed... many aftermarket turbo exhaust manifolds are drilled for both. same goes for gaskets.
11. R32 uses smaller bodied spark plugs and ignition coils than almost every other modern water-cooled vw/audi. You need a smaller bodied spark plug removal tool, and 24v BDF coilpacks won't fit down into the holes.
12. mind blower.... ALL non-FSI vr6 connection rods are the same part number right back from AAA 12v up to BJS/BUB engines. same bearings, same rods. part numbers matching.
13. R32 has same coolant flange on head as touareg, except the small seperate nozzle to flow to bottom of rad is made as a mirror image for touareg as its hose runs along hte exhaust side of the engine to reach passenger side of SUV... in a pinch, you can still use it, just redrill holes (sketchy but would get a person home in a bind).
14. all non-FSI VR6 blocks use same lower timing chains, tension, guides right up to the intermediate shaft oil pump drive. rarely fail except where poor oiling is concerned.
15. the accessory bracket is very different between R32 and SUV 24v's... 100% incompatible between platform, but you can mount any type you want onto any 24v block. Ex: i have a touareg R32 with a mk4 bracket, and am building up a 2.8L with touareg bracket and accessories for a B6 S4 longitudinal swap lol.
16. ALL VR6 engines have identical crankshaft mounting face so any flywheel can go on any vr6....
17. NOT ALL vr6 engines have identical transmission mounting face... even within vr golf/jetta family there is a difference... automatic 24v engines 'sometimes' have one of the alignment pegs in a completely different and incompatible location outside of the 02m/02j/02a mounting area. can fix by removing the alignment peg... not ideal. i have never seen a touareg 3.2 that didn't match a FWD trans bellhousing which is good.
18. super-vr6-nerds will know that a mk5 R32 has a shallower oil pump and can be used to get extra clearance in a mk4/mk3/mk2 with a short pan. you can buy such a contraption for about $700 USD or buy a new mk3 steel pan, chop the bottom and weld is shorter.
19. R32 engines have a really really large oil cooler compared to 2.8L engines and will interchange for extra oil cooling on BDF turbo engines.
20. throttle bodies in mk4 R32 have coolant tempering lines, the SUV's do not. not sure on phaeton or passats.
21. VR5 (10v and 20v versions) in europe had an adapter plate between them and the transmissions in B4/b5 passats that were still longitudinal... this will bolt to every audi car chassis transmission there is in last 25 years+.... longitudinal swaps works on any vr6 with noted provision in #17 above.
22. vr5 driver's side (left) mount is a perfect fit for an audi a4/s4 longitudinal swap and has integrated oil cooler. the passenger side (right) is not as the vr6's lack special mounts the shorter vr5 has between oil pump drive boss and flywheel end... but its easy to manufacture at home.
23. R32 and touareg engines all have the same pistons, rings, valves, etc.
24. R32 and touareg engines have identical timing chain parts... zero difference between them. i have never confirmed if the camshaft timing wheels differ but will later today. 2.8 and 3.2 R32 are the same... never checked touareg in particular.
25. touareg 3.2's have plastic front main seal and some rear main seal flanges... form-fit-function identical, just different material of construction. this matches many newer VW/audi engines.
26. timing covers for 3.2 engines all fit between each other but some external features vary. i am not aware of any clearance issues with FWD transmissions but haven't confirmed all combos... i do know 12v covers need trimming to go on many audi transmissions.
27. valve covers vary in layout with a few different versions... mk4 R32 has low chain cover, pulley side PCV vent, chain side oil fill cap. touareg has high chain cover pulley side oil fill cap chain side PCV, mk5 r32/TTr32 has high chain cover, chain side fill and PCV (perfect for audi long swaps). all are interchangeable, some have benefits for certain swaps/hybrid builds.
28. 2.8 and mk4 have PCV on pulley end which needs long plastic PCV hoses which break with age. the touareg intake manifold has a short tiny little hose from chain side of valve cover right to backside of throttle body area. is cleaner and also doesn't fill up cyl 1, 2,3 with grime so much. many 24v 2.8 and 3.2 suffer from low compression on cyl 1-3 due to valve lip grime build-up.
29. touareg fuel rails are non-return rails (ie - only 1 supply line to it). mk4 R32 needs return loop rail, mk5 R32 does not.
29. touareg serpentine belt and crank pulley have 7-ribs... R32 has 6-ribs.


most of this is useless, but i am sure some of it will satisfy decision to use low-cost touareg 3.2's for transverse swaps


oh... yes, you absolutely can use a touareg 3.2 to swap into a golf/jetta. here is what you need to do:

1. tap 3x mounting holes into the bosses on the block.
2. swap oil pump and pan from R32 or 2.8 24v onto the touareg block
3. swap R32/24v exhaust manifolds (they point down, touareg points to side a bit) no change for a mk5 R32 to touareg
4. swap accessory bracket and accessories
5. swap R32 fuel rail onto touareg head
6. swap intake mani and valve cover if you want to keep same connections in the car as R32/24v/TT
7. swap coolant flange over thermostat
8. swap oil cooler assembly and hoses between block and cooler
9. swap crank pulley if you are bothered the touareg ones have 7-ribs...

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[Alec's TT]

Here starts the fun, Im going to post a few pics up. Long story short. Im putting an R32 6 speed manual in an Audi TT. I think it will be pretty unique because the TT only came with a 3.2 DSG from what i can tell.

Motor before i touched it

Crank that is trashed

Brake upgrade that came with it

Touareg motor that i ordered with 110k miles for $1150 shipped. This even has the holes for the motor mount already drilled!

 

[Mic17a]

I'll be damned! Nice score there. Definitely watching!

 

[vr6fanatic]

Great job. Have you thought of going with the 3.6 VR?


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[Alec's TT]

Great job. Have you thought of going with the 3.6 VR?


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I had not, im brand new to the vr6 world. I could build you a 1.8t in a few hours with my eye closed and my budget is pretty tight right now. This seemed like the easiest and most straight forward swap.

 

[Alec's TT]

Big update with alot of picture and alot more to come. So i stripped down the touareg engine and i was just on cloud nine about how clean it was, how little rust there was, how it was just in perfect condition. Everything was mint until i pulled the valve cover off and there was about a 1/4 inch of sludge in the engine. I spend 3 hours trying to clean it out. So i gave up and went ahead and installed my new timing kit. I got alot of it out and was going to try some motor flush to clean it out. Today i changed my mine and pulled the head off and took it to my machinist for a good dip in the tank. He said the ultrasonic would clean it right up! As for the people still wondering about the differences in the motors, i have photo proof that the heads are the same and a pic of the block casting. Nothing off the True R32 yet as it was too rusted to see. Oh, the clutch that came in my $1k swap is brand new too! Also if anyone is skilled in DIY immo defeats, please let me know. There is also text between the pictures! More to come with 4 more packages of parts in the mail!


Touareg engine

Touareg engine

R32

Touareg, From what i can tell the timing covers are identical too. I thought i read somewhere that they were not.

Touareg

R32 head

Touareg head

Clutch

Sludge

Also the Body harness of the ecu almost plugged entirely into the car, i have been chasing wiring diagrams trying to figure out what the extra 4 wire on the green TT plug are that the white R32 plug doesnt have. Also if anyone is skilled in DIY immo defeats, please let me know.

 

[lil'red]

Looks good. Glad things are coming along as smooth as can be. I may be mistaken but I thought I read somewhere that the angles of the pistons are different between certain 3.2 vr's vs others... now that could be a generation gap between mk4 and mk5 ones.. but I don't know if/how the t'reg ones factor in there.

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[ticketed2much]

That sludge looks bad. Good call having it cleaned professionally lol. You going to run the VR n/a for a while?

 

[Alec's TT]

For a year or two it will stay na. I don't have funds to go turbo. If I wasnt currently in the middle of purchasing a house. The build/rebuild you are watching would be taking a wildly different approach. The head came out perfect. I mean spotless like a new head. He ran it through the ultra sonic 3 times. It's amazing. I will post more pics this week, I still have parts showing up too!

 

[Alec's TT]

Made some progress tonight getting things put together, i forgot my clutch alignment tool at home and i wasn't driving home to get it so i stopped there.

Head all cleaned up

Block after scraping it with a razor blade

Touareg oil cooler on the left, R32 on the right, i went with the touareg one for two reasons, firstly it is bigger, that cant hurt. Secondly, i had no way of knowing if i was able to get all the shavings out of the R32 cooler so i didnt even try.

I was able to use both stock touareg cooler hoses.

Way less hose clutter with the pump removed. I will use straight barbed fittings to remove the t fittings where the after run pump tapped the upper and lower hose. Then i will just put a rubber cap on the nipple on the block.

I forgot to order exhaust manifold gaskets and im tired of waiting for boxes from ecs to show up so i grabbed a can of copper spray and let em have it!

Just a couple more progress pics.