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Re: R32 vs the new M3 (reggie cash)

Stock vs. stock...it doesn't (except for price)
My bro-in-law just picked up his '04 M3 6sp and it's in another league altogether.
However, for the price he paid, $54K...HPA would be happy to level the playing field...and even tilt it very much in your favor.
 

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Re: R32 vs the new M3 (reggie cash)

Quote, originally posted by reggie cash »
if the R32 has 241hp how does it stand up to the 333hp M3?

why are you asking this? yes both cars have 6 cylinder normally aspirated engines, both use variable valve timing and are 3.2l 24V designs...but the BMW uses several other methods to extract more power out of it, this is also reflected in its price $50K vs $30K for the R32. most feel the BMW M3s engine has been tweaked to its max potential (taking into account that it is a consumer vehicle and has to function reliably in that role) and indeed it does have a rigorous maintenance schedule and plenty of systems in place to protect that engine...again justifying it's price.
The R32 should have the same maintenance level that a 2.8 24V VR6 has, lower maintenance requires a 'safer' level of performance...
But the engine is capable of making more power... AMD in the UK has a 270hp/270 torque(more torque than the M3 makes) chip/exhaust combo, they also have a 300 hp( do not know if equivalent torque) chip/cams/exhaust combo, and if you spent the total price of the M3 $50K, HPA will build you a twin Turbo R32 that will embarass cars costing twice as much...HPA is working on a single turbo kit that will get you $350+HP...
 

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Re: R32 vs the new M3 (reggie cash)

Quote, originally posted by reggie cash »
why i ask because i driven a 12v Vr w/ chip, intake, and exhaust it kept up with older M3's.

are you thinking doing another engine swap?
 

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Re: R32 vs the new M3 (gizmopop)

The R32 and the M3 are completely different cars and have very different target markets. The R32 is a performance hatchback with lots of space and AWD. The M3 is a performance coupe with considerably less space and RWD. Lots of people can afford $29K; the ranks thin fast by $49K (approx price for new M3 with similar features, i.e., sunroof, heated seats and "premium" audio system). The stock R32 is no match for an M3 (on a dry surface), but as others have pointed out, add $20K in HPA stuff to an R32 and you will have M3-like performance. Because the AWD system chews up a lot of power, you would need around 400HP and 340 ftlbs in an R32 to match an M3.
If you are thinking about one or the other, wait two months and I will provide a real comparison. I already know that the STI and EVO are not even in the same league as an M3 -- raw power is only a part of the equation.
 

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Re: R32 vs the new M3 (GelbM3)

I had a chance to play with brand new m3 last weekend. Keep in mind that I never driven R32.
M3 IS THE BEST SPORTS CAR I HAVE EVER DRIVEN as of today!!!
It's unbelievable how much power is packed in to that car.
IMO r32 is great car, but if you can afford m3 there is not contest here, M3 all the way.
PS The only other problem besides price is that suspension is very stiff and if you live in large city like Brooklyn the ride gets very uncomfortable fast. BUT M3 rocks all the way.
 

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Re: R32 vs the new M3 (GelbM3)

Quote, originally posted by GelbM3 »
Because the AWD system chews up a lot of power, you would need around 400HP and 340 ftlbs in an R32 to match an M3.

THIS is NOT completely true! The AWD only activates when there is slip detected. Otherwise, its a FWD car, and all thw power goes right to the ground. An HPA car with turbo mods/additions will DEFINATELY be faster than an m3 when driven right.
Of course, here in Calif where its sunny, the M3 is a definate winner unless you decide to get the R32 and the HPA twin turbo kit. It wont be an M3, but it'll slaughter everything on the road except a few exotics that might be out there. And hey, think of all the money you'll make and pink slips you'll earn in drag races.
R32 HPA sleeper hehhehe.
 

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Re: R32 vs the new M3 (GelbM3)

Quote, originally posted by GelbM3 »
but as others have pointed out, add $20K in HPA stuff to an R32 and you will have M3-like performance. Because the AWD system chews up a lot of power, you would need around 400HP and 340 ftlbs in an R32 to match an M3.

M3 like performance? you did see the HPA stage 2 R32 vids posts etc..? 11.4 sec 1/4 mile times are not M3 like...they are a couple of tenths of a second behind a Ferrari Enzo and the car isn't a slouch in other areas either.
 

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Re: R32 vs the new M3 (gizmopop)

I bought an '02 M3 a few months ago. Obviously the M3 is faster in a straight line, but M3's handling is also superior w/ its 50/50 weight distribution. I would say a more fair comparo is the M3 vs. the new -- check this video: http://www.yoyo.org/~andy/private/TopgearM3.wmv (28 MB, 8 minutes long)

Modified by wrkane at 5:47 PM 12-18-2003

Modified by wrkane at 5:48 PM 12-18-2003


Modified by wrkane at 5:50 PM 12-18-2003
 

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Re: R32 vs the new M3 (gizmopop)

Quote, originally posted by gizmopop »

M3 like performance? you did see the HPA stage 2 R32 vids posts etc..? 11.4 sec 1/4 mile times are not M3 like...they are a couple of tenths of a second behind a Ferrari Enzo and the car isn't a slouch in other areas either.

Go back and read what I wrote. I said for equivalent $$. The HPA vehicle that put up the times you quoted will cost more than an R32 + $20K
 

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Re: R32 vs the new M3 (Dark Cipher)

Dark Cipher said:
THIS is NOT completely true! The AWD only activates when there is slip detected. Otherwise, its a FWD car, and all thw power goes right to the ground. An HPA car with turbo mods/additions will DEFINATELY be faster than an m3 when driven right.
QUOTE]
I stick with what I said. You are not going to put 300+ HP down with just FWD, particularly with stock tires. As soon as the front wheels start to break loose, the AWD will kick in and the drivetrain loses will mount.
I do not know how BMW does it, but my M3 launches like it was geared to the ground. It is faster off the line than my Pantera and that has a whole lot of weight in the rear. The M3 has the better tires ...
 

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Re: R32 vs the new M3 (GelbM3)

Quote, originally posted by Dark Cipher »
THIS is NOT completely true! The AWD only activates when there is slip detected. Otherwise, its a FWD car, and all thw power goes right to the ground. An HPA car with turbo mods/additions will DEFINATELY be faster than an m3 when driven right.

Quote, originally posted by GelbM3 »

I stick with what I said. You are not going to put 300+ HP down with just FWD, particularly with stock tires. As soon as the front wheels start to break loose, the AWD will kick in and the drivetrain loses will mount.
I do not know how BMW does it, but my M3 launches like it was geared to the ground. It is faster off the line than my Pantera and that has a whole lot of weight in the rear. The M3 has the better tires ...

The AWD system will factor in on launch, and in any situation where tire rotation speed varies between front and rear... if you are just accelerating after the initial launch it will act like FWD...Haldex isn't like the S4s Torsen which is always engaged, and can only transfer 70% of the power to the front or rear, Haldex can actually transfer very close to 100% to the front or rear.

Quote, originally posted by GelbM3 »

Go back and read what I wrote. I said for equivalent $$. The HPA vehicle that put up the times you quoted will cost more than an R32 + $20K

Quote, originally posted by HPA motorsports 1 »

Est investment 22-25K on top of the R32 (estimate)

That is definately in the same range as an M3 (I don't know what price you got your M3 for, but they go for $50K+ around here...)
 

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Re: R32 vs the new M3 (gizmopop)

Quote, originally posted by gizmopop »

The AWD system will factor in on launch, and in any situation where tire rotation speed varies between front and rear... if you are just accelerating after the initial launch it will act like FWD...Haldex isn't like the S4s Torsen which is always engaged, and can only transfer 70% of the power to the front or rear, Haldex can actually transfer very close to 100% to the front or rear.

I disagree that the AWD will cut out after launch unless the driver has a very careful foot. It is a catch-22. The AWD system is automatic. To post 0-60 times in the mid 4's requires 400+ HP for a 3300 lb car. And that must be applied for the entire run. You will not put 400HP down just through the front tires. As soon as the front starts slipping, the AWD will cut in. If you lift off to keep the AWD from cutting in, you don't have the power.
Quote, originally posted by gizmopop »

That is definately in the same range as an M3 (I don't know what price you got your M3 for, but they go for $50K+ around here...)

An M3 lists at approx $46K. Add the required options to make it equivalent to the R32, i.e., sunroof, heated seats, upgraded stereo, etc and the price should be approx $49K (which is $20K more than the $29K R32). You can easily add another $5k (the SMG is about $3k alone), but we should compare equivalent vehicles. I know that HPA estimated the StageII package at $22-25K, but I doubt that that price will be attained and (I think) there were a few things on the HPA car that are not included in the "standard" StageII package, e.g., wheels, tires, extra rear shocks. My feeling is that the full HPA equivalent package will be closer to $30K + PST & GST (which I assume will be refunded eventually). I hope the $22K is right because I am one of the people who is VERY interested in the HPA package.
 

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Re: R32 vs the new M3 (REMUS 13)

again... IM
 

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Re: R32 vs the new M3 (GelbM3)

Quote, originally posted by GelbM3 »

I disagree that the AWD will cut out after launch unless the driver has a very careful foot. It is a catch-22. The AWD system is automatic. To post 0-60 times in the mid 4's requires 400+ HP for a 3300 lb car. And that must be applied for the entire run. You will not put 400HP down just through the front tires. As soon as the front starts slipping, the AWD will cut in. If you lift off to keep the AWD from cutting in, you don't have the power.

you are going to have to lift off the throttle when you shift (ie you are cutting off the power from the ground regardless if you lift off the throttle or not(DSG is the exception here)).
AWD is the great equalizer when it comes to 0-60 times, case in point the WRX STI is capable of sub 5 second 0-60 times and it only has 300 hp.
To say that the AWD system is automatic is one thing, but a better description is dynamic, Haldex isn't a locked differential system,(at least not in this application) it isn't going to be sending a static amount of power the whole time you are driving it, its going send the power where & when it's needed (Haldex can react at 15 degree wheel rotation).
In this case the AWD is needed to put the power to the ground to get the car moving from a stop, but once you are on the way, there is no reason why the front wheels cannot continue to put the power down...Haldex AWD engages when and where it is needed.
Quote, originally posted by GelbM3 »

An M3 lists at approx $46K. Add the required options to make it equivalent to the R32, i.e., sunroof, heated seats, upgraded stereo, etc and the price should be approx $49K (which is $20K more than the $29K R32). You can easily add another $5k (the SMG is about $3k alone), but we should compare equivalent vehicles. I know that HPA estimated the StageII package at $22-25K, but I doubt that that price will be attained and (I think) there were a few things on the HPA car that are not included in the "standard" StageII package, e.g., wheels, tires, extra rear shocks. My feeling is that the full HPA equivalent package will be closer to $30K + PST & GST (which I assume will be refunded eventually). I hope the $22K is right because I am one of the people who is VERY interested in the HPA package.

pricewise the cars are in the same ballpark, were talking about a $2K-4K difference in price (depending on which price the modded R32 comes in at and what options the M3 has) for a difference in accelerative performance, 3.2 0-60 11.4 1/4 mile top speed of 200 mph (HPA stage 2 R32) and 4.XX and low 13s 1/4 mile, top speed limited to 155(but can probably do 170+mph) for the M3.
Those prices were posted by Marcel (HPAmotorsports1) hold him to it... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 
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