relationship of transmission mount to motor mount

1696 Views 29 Replies 14 Participants Last post by JettJagwar, Feb 14, 2002

JettJagwar

Discussion Starter · Feb 12, 2002

i m willing to bet i get much more technical responses here. on monday i brought my car in to get the headlight bulb replaced. the dealership gave me my car back making horrible noises, so i turned around and had them diagnose the problem. they said i lost 2 bolts on my transmission mount. they ordered the parts or whatever, wound up being @ $350. i was just happy to pick up my car on wednesday night after work, the P O S metro loaner is absolute torture. thursday i go to work and back as per normal, no problems. Friday, my car is making horrible growling noises on my way to work. so i call the dealership and the soonest they can see my car is monday. my car stays in front of my house the whole weekend, i could see that the engine was listing about 10 degrees in the engine bay, so i m thinking its a broken motormount.
the dealership calls me at work on monday to tell me that my engine block is cracked. the 2 left motor mount bolts came off and are inside the engine, and a third bolt on the top right side tore through the block. they come up with a bill of $11,000 in parts and labor, which includes buying a new engine as a "short block" is not offerred in Vr6 form.
i find it hard to believe that in slightly over 24 hours my motor mount inexplicably fails and cracks my engine block. i have spoken with people more mechanically inclined than myself and they believe the tech didnt notice the motormount problems when they replaced the transmission mount, and it was just a matter of time b4 all hell broke loose. it is also my understanding that the motormount problems were most likely caused by the weakened transmission mount, something else the tech should have picked up on.
heres my post in the mkIV forum, i m interested in what the 12v vr6 people have to say other than "stay away from that dealership" which is obvious.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=238260
D_J

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euro sport

· #2 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (JettJagwar)

Wow!

Sorry about the bad news.
I believe the VR6 engine is held in by three mounts. There is the front-center mount, passenger-side rear mount, and driver-side tranny mount. When they installed new bolts on your tranny mount, I assume they would have to remove the top bolts on all three mounts to free the engine from the frame. Then you would push the engine towards the rear just far enough to gain access to those three tranny mount bolts. This can be done with your trunk scissor jack (stated in the Bentley manual).
When I replaced my clutch, I over torqued one of those tranny bolts (the longest one) and had to order a replacement bolt. I used the scissor jack technique, and it worked great.
I'm thinking that they were the ones who probably messed with all of your engine mounts when replacing your broken bolts. You might want to check into what was required for them to replace your broken bolts (ie. did they touch your other engine mounts).
I'm still confused regarding an engine mount bolt breaking your block. How did they get inside the engine???

Did you notice any oil leaking from your block when you heard those noises?
My other question is warranty. Are you the original owner? How many miles do you have on your car?

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4

kingofA2`s

· #3 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (chuck_simpson)

sounds like bs can`t u take it somewere else.and question was the car ever in an accident?anyway there places that can do that job for like 1/4 of what the dealer charges.11,grand is an outrage.

need_a_VR6

· #4 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (JettJagwar)

Holy moly, I'd try another dealer. Unless you really nuked the mount it would be hard to crack the taps in the block. Without seeing it, it's hard to make assumptions, but this dealer sounds like bad news.

JettJagwar

Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (need_a_VR6)

yeah i have every intention of suing the dealership and having it replaced elsewhere. the worst part is, i just went in to have a headlight replaced...
i m not pushing it as a warranty issue, my car was purchased january 2000 and i have 38,000 miles on it. powertrain warranty is limited to internally lubricated parts, and the motor mount is the source of the damage according to them. i m looking at a negligence suit, theres nothing i did in slightly over 24 hours that could have ripped the motormount and cracked my block. thanx for the insight, looking forward to more responses.
D_J

JettaRed

· #6 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (JettJagwar)

quote:[HR][/HR]
...powertrain warranty is limited to internally lubricated parts...[HR][/HR]

Man, you need to read your warranty booklet and quit listening to opinions on vortex (my opinions inlcuded). The engine block is covered under the powertrain warranty (unless your engine management modification, i.e. chip, can be shown to have caused the break).

BryanH

· #7 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (chuck_simpson)

I am with Chuck on this one...I thought you had to at least loosen all the mounts to replace the tranny mount. I don't see how they could have replaced the tranny mount bolts and not had to mess with the engine mounts.....

TyrolSport

· #8 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (JettJagwar)

Any way to get pictures posted of the damage? This would really help a lot in determining what the hell is going on.......
My good friend JB Weld usually can fix this type of stuff for cheap....

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JettaRed

· #9 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (BryanH)

quote:[HR][/HR]I am with Chuck on this one...I thought you had to at least loosen all the mounts to replace the tranny mount. I don't see how they could have replaced the tranny mount bolts and not had to mess with the engine mounts.....[HR][/HR]

If he is referring to the pendulum support (dogbone), then no, they don't touch the motor mounts. If he means the transmission side (driver's side) motor mount losing bolts, then that's a different story. But based on his post in the G/J IV forum, I think he means the dogbone mount.

euro sport

· #10 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (JettaRed)

quote:[HR][/HR]I am with Chuck on this one...I thought you had to at least loosen all the mounts to replace the tranny mount. I don't see how they could have replaced the tranny mount bolts and not had to mess with the engine mounts.....
If he is referring to the pendulum support (dogbone), then no, they don't touch the motor mounts. If he means the transmission side (driver's side) motor mount losing bolts, then that's a different story. But based on his post in the G/J IV forum, I think he means the dogbone mount.[HR][/HR]

Then how do you gain access to those three bolts that hold the tranny (dogbone) support? I had to push the engine towards the rear to even get a wrench in there to remove/replace those bolts. That required the engine not be supported by the other engine mounts.
How else is it possible?

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JettaRed

· #11 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (chuck_simpson)

quote:[HR][/HR]
Then how do you gain access to those three bolts that hold the tranny (dogbone) support? I had to push the engine towards the rear to even get a wrench in there to remove/replace those bolts. That required the engine not be supported by the other engine mounts.
How else is it possible?[HR][/HR]

This is the transmission pendulum support (a.k.a. dogbone mount).

There are four bolts, not three, and you don't need to move the engine to access them.

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euro sport

· #12 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (JettaRed)

Ahhh... I see. I didn't think the Mk3 VR6's were that much different, but I guess they really are.

I'm thinking of the Mk3 Tranny mount that bolts to the tranny (using 3 bolts).
My bad... I guess you can disregard my previous statements since you have a Mk4 VR6.

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2

JettJagwar

Discussion Starter · #13 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (JettaRed)

quote:[HR][/HR]
...powertrain warranty is limited to internally lubricated parts...[HR][/HR]

i m quoting what i heard from both the dealership and 2 VWoA reps. While they could agree it wasnt covered, they disagreed on who made the ruling to deny any and all assistance due to "outside influence."
D_J

Stealth2.8VR6

· #14 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (JettJagwar)

The mounting systems may be different between the models but, cracked block from a broken motor mount @#$^%!!! The force that would be required to inflict this kind of damage just would not be present while driving unless your travelling some pretty rough 'back' roads.
"Lost 2 bolts from your trans mount(38k)", highly unlikely unless they were touched!Is this the first time you've used this dealer?new technician?And then you lose 2 bolts from your motor mt????
Time to definitely seek some legal advise, and keep us in the loop.
Go get them!!!

JettJagwar

Discussion Starter · #15 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (Stealth2.8VR6)

i have been to them exclusively... the whole story can be read if you click the link in my first post, it goes to the thread on the mkIV forum.
D_J

JettaRed

· #16 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (JettJagwar)

quote:[HR][/HR]
...powertrain warranty is limited to internally lubricated parts...
i m quoting what i heard from both the dealership and 2 VWoA reps. While they could agree it wasnt covered, they disagreed on who made the ruling to deny any and all assistance due to "outside influence."
D_J[HR][/HR]

Man, you NEED TO READ YOUR POWERTRAIN WARRANTY! I don't mean to yell, but you are aggrevating. Quit listening to what other people say and find out for yourself what's what. The only person you should be listening to is a lawyer if you hope to get anywhere with this.
You have yet to answer the question what "outside influence" means. "Outside influence" isn't mentioned anywhere in the warranty booklet. Has VW given you a definition or not? And, what do you mean they disagree on who ruled to deny warranty coverage? Sounds like finger pointing.
Until you can provide some definitive answers, quit posting about your troubles. And I mean that the nicest way I can say it.

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shftat6

· #17 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (JettaRed)

I still want to know how the hell motor mount bolts get inside the motor? Since you took the car in for a headlight replacement. (???????) It seems VW is trying to take serious advantage of your lack of mechanical ability. Find a mechanic willing to testify for you and sue, something is seriously wrong here.

15degree_V

· #18 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (JettaRed)

quote:[HR][/HR]
...powertrain warranty is limited to internally lubricated parts...
i m quoting what i heard from both the dealership and 2 VWoA reps. While they could agree it wasnt covered, they disagreed on who made the ruling to deny any and all assistance due to "outside influence."
D_J
Man, you NEED TO READ YOUR POWERTRAIN WARRANTY! I don't mean to yell, but you are aggrevating. Quit listening to what other people say and find out for yourself what's what. The only person you should be listening to is a lawyer if you hope to get anywhere with this.
You have yet to answer the question what "outside influence" means. "Outside influence" isn't mentioned anywhere in the warranty booklet. Has VW given you a definition or not? And, what do you mean they disagree on who ruled to deny warranty coverage? Sounds like finger pointing.
Until you can provide some definitive answers, quit posting about your troubles. And I mean that the nicest way I can say it.[HR][/HR]

jettared....why don't you stop responding then? every time he posts you respond. if you find him "aggrevating" don't respond anymore. o so simple.

[Modified by 15degree_V, 5:08 PM 2-12-2002]

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gin8122

· #19 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (shftat6)

quote:[HR][/HR]I still want to know how the hell motor mount bolts get inside the motor? Since you took the car in for a headlight replacement. (???????) It seems VW is trying to take serious advantage of your lack of mechanical ability. Find a mechanic willing to testify for you and sue, something is seriously wrong here.[HR][/HR]

I couldn't agree more. You are in for an uphill battle, and I am sorry to hear about it. Stealerships are all the same. Yes I meant to say ALL. I know a s#$t load of damn good mecs that have left dealerships$$$ for a good HONEST job.
The best of luck to you

kingofA2`s

· #20 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: relationship of transmission mount to motor mount (gin8122)

like i say f the dealer.i only goto the dealer for parts when it last resort. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif

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