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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this subject has been beaten into oblivion, but in all the search results the threads end up in bickering and fighting. I'm looking for a better answer.
I will soon be swapping a 12v VR6 into my 90 Jetta Coupe. I would like to through some goodies into the mix while they're putting the car together. I've had a VR6 before with chip, intake and exhaust, but nothing internal.
I've heard nothing but good things about the Schrick 268/Garrett v.11 Cam chip combination... and that's my first inclination.
I have since read that the DSR 256 Cam performs well as does the TT 260/264 cam.
If I had to choose between the two, I would go for the TT cam because it sounds like it has more area under the torque curve across the board. That said, I would still love to be able to wind it out and still make power to 6500 or so.
Can anyone chime in with personal experiences in this arena?
I don't know if I'll have enough money for the $750 Schrick cams, $130 GIAC Chip and Installation in addition to the $5000 swap fee. The notion of being able to use $450 cams and $130 Chip and saving some money for an intake or HD motor mounts sounds nice, as long as we're not talking about a 10hp difference up top or something.
Thanks in advance for any information.
 

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Re: Schrick 268 / DSR 256 / TT 260/264 [Please kick the dead horse for me again.] (GtiVR6racer)

Wow this is really throwing fuel on a fire, but I like the 260/264 camset from TT that I have.
260/264 pulls hard up top and you get nice torque.
It doesn't pull quite as hard up top as the 268, but you don't lose anything downlow.
Some will say you that with the right chip tuning you don't lose anything downlow with 268 compared to stock, but compared to 260/264 chipped, you're losing a lot.
If price is a factor, I would go 260/264. But then again price wasn't a factor for me and I went 260/264 because I felt the 268's lost too much downlow when I took a ride in a car with them, and I like the feel of the 260/264 better.



Modified by 95' GLX VR6 at 10:08 PM 2-13-2004
 

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Re: Schrick 268 / DSR 256 / TT 260/264 [Please kick the dead horse for me again.] (B3VR6)

DSR 256 will do the job.
Im getting a Schrick 248 since im going FI.
 

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Re: Schrick 268 / DSR 256 / TT 260/264 [Please kick the dead horse for me again.] (B3VR6)

DSR's.. make comparable power to the scricks and are cheap..
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: Schrick 268 / DSR 256 / TT 260/264 [Please kick the dead horse for me again.] (corpsedub)

Thanks for the replies!
Ok.. so now I have 2 questions:
1) If the 260/264 has more low-end gains but is slightly softer up top... any estimate how much more gains there are down low and how much less it makes up top versus the 268's? I currently have a 1.8 Digifant in the car and I just dropped in a worked head with a 270 cam. I can REALLY feel the difference now because the car pulls all the way out to 7k... it feels DEAD below 3750 though. I don't want that with the VR. I want BOTH!

2) I guess I have the same questions here as with question 1. I would gladly gain 7-10hp low across a wide band if I only gained 7hp up top versus 15hp for the 268's.
Bottom line... this is what I imagine so far...
260/264 - I gain power across a wide range down low and then only gain 5-7hp or so above 5500
268 - A gain of 15hp up top above 5500 but a slight loss of 1-3hp down low
 

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Re: Schrick 268 / DSR 256 / TT 260/264 [Please kick the dead horse for me again.] (B3VR6)

B3, why do you want cams? Ask yourself, honestly. It seems like you are part of the "better drivability crowd". Not hating, but think of this logically: If you are winding out the motor, that torque in the low and mid range will be used for how long? A split second in first?
Up top the car doesn't rev as fast, at least it doesn't fly throught the last 1500 rpm of 2nd, 3rd and 4th like it does the middle revs of those gears. If you want a faster car, where do you think the power will do more good? Bottom mid, where you spend a comparatively little amount of time, or up top where it takes longer to rev?
If what you want is to not have to downshift, get a VGI. If you want a faster car, get a Schrick 268 or one of the DSR cams, they make more power than anything else. A cam won't give you both, by a cams very nature. They shift power-bands. If you really want both, ante up and get a VGI too.
 

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Re: Schrick 268 / DSR 256 / TT 260/264 [Please kick the dead horse for me again.] (cosmosis)

If you are putting a VR into a coupe you are already getting a huge power upgrade. I would work on getting it to handle first B$ putting even MORE power into it. You are being greedy. Get coils and sway bars and strut bars, get it to handle perfectly, THEN you need to work on the brakes. Once you get that all going , then consider getting cams. Baby steps young grasshopper. The best way to go with cams is with a lightened flywheel and VGI. That way you get MORE torque and rev to the sweet spot quicker. Honestly I have Schrick 264/260's and I notice a loss of power down low. The VGI will turn that loss to a gain. Most people on here will talk about cams from what they have read, not actually having them or have driven with them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Schrick 268 / DSR 256 / TT 260/264 [Please kick the dead horse for me again.] (rocket vr6)

Thanks for the comments.
I know about getting the power up at high RPM.. that's how my car is now, with the worked head and cam. It has almost NOTHING until about 4k and then pulls hard to redline. What I'd like is a car with a flatter torque curve, which is why the 260/264 sounds good to me.
And don't get me wrong, I love to wind my car out to 7k because it's still making power up there... I just can't stand how it's dead until 4k. I don't want the VR6 I drop in to feel like that. I've had an OBDI VR6 in the past and it felt similar, but not quite as bad. It didn't feel like it really woke up until after 4500 or so.
Now, the 24v GLI I have in the driveway is another matter altogether. That thing has gobs of torque right off the line and pulls all the way to the (far too early) stock redine.
Also, the car already has an H&R Cup Kit (I know the fronts will be replaced) and an O-bars rear sway bar. I plan on welding a plate on the open end of the u-channel rear suspension beam once the VR6 is installed for more roll-stiffness out back.
I didn't mention the suspension things because this thread was about cams, not 'what to do with my car.' The other planned modification while NGP is doing the swap is a set of 11" Corrado front brakes and the 9.4" rear discs.... so braking is covered as well.
Anyway.. back to the point of all this... If I can find a cam that still pulls hard up top to 7k and also gains a little across the board, I'll be golden. If the best way to go is the Schrick 268's with a GIAC chip, then that's where I'll be going. I was just hoping to make use of one of the other, cheaper cams out there now to have the best of both worlds. If the other cams gain a bit down low but then only gain 2-5hp up top, that's not for me. I need a cam that breathes well up top but not so much at the expense of the low/mid range.
Kapice?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Rocket... do you have the GIAC v11 chip for Cams or are you running stock programming? Every thing I'm reading says that the GIAC chip fills in the hole and smooths out any low-mid dips in the power curve that may come as a result of the hotter cam profile.
 

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Re: (rocket vr6)

If you don't want to lose anything and gain some downlow, and still want to the pull up top, like I said try out the 260/264. Its a good cam.
Don't decieve yourself when you go drive a 268, since you're losing some (or with proper chip tuning its about stock) torque the pull up high will seem dramatic compared to power down low. Psychology is a very powerful thing.
If you drive a car with DSR 256 cams or 260/264 the pull will be more even, and there will be more power all over the place. You won't notice the dramtic difference. If you want the effect of going fast, get the 268's.
If you're interested in going fast you'll have more torque with 256 and more horsepower with 268, and the 260/264 will be right inbetween .
A general rule of thumb (though this doesn't always apply) is that a larger cam (268. 272) will make more horsepower but you'll lose torque and a smaller cam (248, 256) will make more torque, but you won't get those horsepower gains from the (268, 272).
As I said the 260/264 seems to be a very nice balance to me, as I value a longer useable power range while still putting up good horsepower numbers so I don't have to shift as much, or downshift when I'm passing someone because I'm not in the 6500-7000 rpm range.
In the end it all really depends on what you want to do.
I wouldn't consider regrinds though, I've seen those fail in less than year. When they superheat the metal to grind some off it cannot be cooled to the same tolerances of billet cast no matter what the company says. So I would take 256 off your list if it was my list, but it's your choice.
Check out the dyno charts here and try to compare similarily equipped cars with 256, 260/264, and 268 cams. Check out the curve as well as the numbers. http://vr6dyno.cjb.net/
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: (95' GLX VR6)

95 GLX! Finally! Thank you!
That is the answer I've been looking for. After reading what you said about the 260/264 and 256, those seem like the best mid-point for what I want to do. I totally agree with you and the psychological affects of a cam being flat and then 'coming on' (VTECH Style) like a switch up top.
It's really hard to find 2 dynos on the site you mentioned that can be compared... I don't see any dynos of the TT 260/264s.. only the Schrick 264 and Kent 264.
It looks like I'm now between the DSR 256 and the TT 260/264... now if I could only find 2 dynos of mostly stock cars that are both either Mustang or Dynojet pulls. I'd overlay them in PS for comparison.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I just looked at DSR's site and TT's site. It looks like the DSR's are regrinds? I'm assuming the TT's aren't.
The DSR's are $425+ cores and the TT's are on sale for $450 and have no core charge.
It sounds like the 260/264's are my choice due to the following:
* Not regrinds
* No need to send my stock cams back in and deal with shipping, etc.
* They're the happy medium between the 268's top end power and the 256's mid-range
Thanks for all your help! Are you running a Garrett chip with your 260/264's? Can stock springs be used? I've been reading many bad things about TT's high-performance springs going bad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: (B3VR6)

Damn it! This is getting bad. I'll revise my prior post...
If I can find a set of used 268's for $500 or less, then that would be my clear choice since I only have about $1k to work with as far as engine mods go...
 

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Re: (B3VR6)

Quote, originally posted by B3VR6 »
Damn it! This is getting bad. I'll revise my prior post...
If I can find a set of used 268's for $500 or less, then that would be my clear choice since I only have about $1k to work with as far as engine mods go...

Ok so why the hell did you change your mind all the sudden? ahahha I thought you had just talked yourself into the TT cams.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: (eurozex)

Quote, originally posted by eurozex »
Ok so why the hell did you change your mind all the sudden? ahahha I thought you had just talked yourself into the TT cams.

I started reading some stuff on the GTI-VR6 archives... and also thought about how I drive my car right now when I'm really trying to go fast... I wind it out to 6000 or so. That's because with my cam and headwork and cam retard, that's where it's making all the power.
Essentially, I like the idea of the TT's, but if I can find a set of 268's for only slightly more, I'd jump on them... as the GIAC Cam chip is a sure thing either way.
 

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Re: (B3VR6)

All cams "turn on like a switch", different ones will just happen at different times. A 264/260 will start to pull right around 3500 rpms(at least mine do)and they pull pretty freakin hard. They just stop pulling hard the more the RPM's climb. If your interested in savind money, look for Schrick 268's for sale. Only buy Schricks used tho. But like I said B4, concentrate on getting the swap hooked up B4 adding even more power to a chassie not made/designed to handle it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Re: (rocket vr6)

I'm liking the sound of the 260/264's more and more. Are they ground from a factory blank or are they regrinds?
What programming should be used with this camset? The GIAC v.11 for the 268 or 256... or is there actually a 260/264 program for it?
What are the differences between the Schrick 260/264 and TT?
 

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Re: (B3VR6)

My VR6 bone stock felt like it had nothing until 4k. Can't see how the cams made it any worse. I'm selling my VGi for a 2.9 OBDII manifold, I'll let you guys know how bad the torque loss is.
 
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