VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum banner

Sign of the times? VW Arteon flagship to be replaced by 'Electric SUV' by 2024...

  • Nah, ID. Aero is a tweener of hatchback sedan and CUV

    Votes: 0 0.0%
61 - 67 of 67 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,479 Posts
Not angry at all, I just don't sugarcoat things which everyone knows by now. People are free to interpret me correctly or incorrectly and project rage that isn't there but I stand by what I say. Americans simply aren't known or lauded for fine taste, rather we are known as a country of people who want nothing but the biggest anything for the lowest cost possible. VW knows this which is why they've slowly gutted their US portfolio such that now we get the developing world Taos and the big n cheap Atlas special. Even the halo car is now a cost cutting special with the Mk VIII. Quite frankly it's a surprise we get the Taos given its small size but I guess they have to have some poverty entry for when the Jetta inevitably gets put out of its misery. shrug
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
848 Posts
"because Americans are vapid badge whores who buy things to impress people they don't know. "
"It's well understood Americans by and large have no taste and are badge conscious,"
Spoken like a hater...
Or is it just casual trash talking to make you feel superior?
Did you just insult about half of the readership here?
Cuz...it seems like it.
Yeah, but he isn't wrong, though.... sorry.
View attachment 222173


The subpar product offerings for the American market shows that we demand less, and get less. Accept reality that Americans are tasteless, auto manufacturers already have. Don't act so aghast.
Thisssssssssssss.
 

·
Registered
A couple CUVs
Joined
·
3,186 Posts
Not angry at all, I just don't sugarcoat things which everyone knows by now. People are free to interpret me correctly or incorrectly and project rage that isn't there but I stand by what I say. Americans simply aren't known or lauded for fine taste, rather we are known as a country of people who want nothing but the biggest anything for the lowest cost possible. VW knows this which is why they've slowly gutted their US portfolio such that now we get the developing world Taos and the big n cheap Atlas special. Even the halo car is now a cost cutting special with the Mk VIII. Quite frankly it's a surprise we get the Taos given its small size but I guess they have to have some poverty entry for when the Jetta inevitably gets put out of its misery. shrug
Eh, there's a difference in "not sugarcoating" and just repetitive ranting and raving. The whole "Americans are badge whores who want the cheapest crap" tirade is beyond tired and you have rehashed it more than enough times. As is the "VW knows we only deserve garbage". Especially because it's not accurate.

We get only a fully loaded Golf R, and have a manual option that European markets don't get. It's expensive, niche and tiny. That doesn't sound like "biggest anything for the lowest price" to me.

The Mk8 cost cutting impacts way more people in the the European market buying the non-performance models (bulk of the sales) than it does the few thousand American buyers. Those Europeans must all have terrible taste, right? They just want cheap prices?

We have an Atlas because every mass market brand in North America needs a large 3-row SUV, because our middle-class demands that type of vehicle, can afford to buy and fuel that size vehicle, and our roads and cities have the infrastructure to support large vehicles. There is nothing classy or displaying fine taste in jamming a big European family and all of their crap into a compact wagon. They do it because that's what their environment dictates.

The discontinuation of Touareg here is not because Americans uniquely hate quality, are cheap, and are badge whores. The truth is that the product is a mediocre seller in the European market as well. Many Europeans are badge whores who don't want expensive VWs also! VW doesn't need to ship them across the ocean to sell like dog**** here as well. Especially with how much more profit is in platform mates like Cayenne, Bentayga, Urus, and the Audis.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49,312 Posts
Never mind the fact that many Europeans who move here get larger cars than they did at home because we aren't taxed arbitrarily on displacement or vehicle size. This isn't new, either. I'd cite examples, but it'd be rambling.
 

·
Registered
2021 Tesla Model 3 SR+, 2017 Subaru Outback Limited
Joined
·
24,908 Posts
Never mind the fact that many Europeans who move here get larger cars than they did at home because we aren't taxed arbitrarily on displacement or vehicle size. This isn't new, either. I'd cite examples, but it'd be rambling.
Buddy of mine moved to The Netherlands and stayed for 4 years. He got a 1.6 liter BMW 3er to haul around his wife and two kids because he said that the taxes were cheaper with the tiny engine. Now, back in the states, that have a Mazda 3 and a decked out Honda Odyssey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,479 Posts
We get only a fully loaded Golf R, and have a manual option that European markets don't get. It's expensive, niche and tiny. That doesn't sound like "biggest anything for the lowest price" to me.

The Mk8 cost cutting impacts way more people in the the European market buying the non-performance models (bulk of the sales) than it does the few thousand American buyers. Those Europeans must all have terrible taste, right? They just want cheap prices?

We have an Atlas because every mass market brand in North America needs a large 3-row SUV, because our middle-class demands that type of vehicle, can afford to buy and fuel that size vehicle, and our roads and cities have the infrastructure to support large vehicles. There is nothing classy or displaying fine taste in jamming a big European family and all of their crap into a compact wagon. They do it because that's what their environment dictates.

The discontinuation of Touareg here is not because Americans uniquely hate quality, are cheap, and are badge whores. The truth is that the product is a mediocre seller in the European market as well. Many Europeans are badge whores who don't want expensive VWs also! VW doesn't need to ship them across the ocean to sell like dog**** here as well. Especially with how much more profit is in platform mates like Cayenne, Bentayga, Urus, and the Audis.
Look, talking about how we get an amazing "fully loaded Golf R" (which, to be clear, comes complete with volume and climate control sliders that don't even light up at night due to VW cost cutting even their halo car) and then subsequently pointing out the whole 'few thousand' Americans who buy it doesn't help your position at all. Realize we get an amazing fully loaded Arteon that sells to a few thousand buyers too. Two niche case studies of nice cars that don't sell amongst a portfolio of cheapened, supersized products that do sell doesn't prove anything other than the niche higher end products aren't successful, which plays right into me saying Americans don't want expensive and nice, they want low prices. The Taos is cheap, but it'll never be a big seller here because it isn't big enough. Or arguably, it isn't cheap enough because it's within spitting distance of the larger Tiguan, pricewise. One way or another, it's either too small or too expensive as is to sell in great numbers, but one thing they've done right is take all semblance of quality out of it.

As far as the Atlas, you're arguing size, I'm primarily arguing quality (I have no issue with size if there's quality, but unfortunately the American market continues to indicate that it wants bigger sizes AND lower prices which means the quality gets cut), which when it comes to the bigger, cheaper Atlas with its paper wood veneer dash trim, just isn't there. A 2017 Touareg started at $50k, while a 2018 Atlas started at $31k or thereabouts. The quality was taken out, the size was increased, and sales increased dramatically. This formula has been replicated time and time again in VW's US portfolio over the last decade, and it's largely worked for them. Their cars got bigger and cheaper (Passat; Jetta; Tiguan; Atlas/CS introduced; developing world Taos introduced; Mk VIII isn't getting cheaper in absolute dollars but it's certainly trending downward in quality) and all they have left now in the US market worth a **** is the Arteon (and arguably the Mk VIII which is debatable given how the Mk VIII has been received due to cost cutting on the interior) which they don't market and nobody understands because in everyone's own words they could buy a much smaller base model A5 sportback with ugly wheels and nothing on it for $50k instead "because why would I buy a VW when I could buy an Audi for the same money as long as I completely ignore feature parity" which can be seen time and time again in the comments on every Arteon article or even within the Arteon forum here. You can anecdotally disagree with the reality of VW gutting its products but it is what it is. At the end of the day maybe some rogue guy in Europe flexes an A1 (just like a rogue American soul here might flex an Arteon) but that doesn't negate VW's decade long market research and strategy of gutting its portfolio in the pursuit of market share, which has worked for them.

One thing we can probably agree on is that the car in the OP is probably destined to be another US market failure if it's positioned as a high quality Arteon successor, because people here will probably do what they've always done and just go buy the lesser equipped Audi. Then there'll be 50 threads about how VW doesn't understand the market, how the pricing was wrong, how people could've bought an Audi, and the world's smallest violin will start to play for people like Puma and the three people in the Arteon forum and five people in the Touareg forum who put their money where their mouth was when they said they wanted and would buy the nice stuff.
 

·
Registered
A couple CUVs
Joined
·
3,186 Posts
Look, talking about how we get an amazing "fully loaded Golf R" (which, to be clear, comes complete with volume and climate control sliders that don't even light up at night due to VW cost cutting even their halo car) and then subsequently pointing out the whole 'few thousand' Americans who buy it doesn't help your position at all. Realize we get an amazing fully loaded Arteon that sells to a few thousand buyers too. Two niche case studies of nice cars that don't sell amongst a portfolio of cheapened, supersized products that do sell doesn't prove anything other than the niche higher end products aren't successful, which plays right into me saying Americans don't want expensive and nice, they want low prices. The Taos is cheap, but it'll never be a big seller here because it isn't big enough. Or arguably, it isn't cheap enough because it's within spitting distance of the larger Tiguan, pricewise. One way or another, it's either too small or too expensive as is to sell in great numbers, but one thing they've done right is take all semblance of quality out of it.

As far as the Atlas, you're arguing size, I'm primarily arguing quality (I have no issue with size if there's quality, but unfortunately the American market continues to indicate that it wants bigger sizes AND lower prices which means the quality gets cut), which when it comes to the bigger, cheaper Atlas with its paper wood veneer dash trim, just isn't there. A 2017 Touareg started at $50k, while a 2018 Atlas started at $31k or thereabouts. The quality was taken out, the size was increased, and sales increased dramatically. This formula has been replicated time and time again in VW's US portfolio over the last decade, and it's largely worked for them. Their cars got bigger and cheaper (Passat; Jetta; Tiguan; Atlas/CS introduced; developing world Taos introduced; Mk VIII isn't getting cheaper in absolute dollars but it's certainly trending downward in quality) and all they have left now in the US market worth a **** is the Arteon (and arguably the Mk VIII which is debatable given how the Mk VIII has been received due to cost cutting on the interior) which they don't market and nobody understands because in everyone's own words they could buy a much smaller base model A5 sportback with ugly wheels and nothing on it for $50k instead "because why would I buy a VW when I could buy an Audi for the same money as long as I completely ignore feature parity" which can be seen time and time again in the comments on every Arteon article or even within the Arteon forum here. You can anecdotally disagree with the reality of VW gutting its products but it is what it is. At the end of the day maybe some rogue guy in Europe flexes an A1 (just like a rogue American soul here might flex an Arteon) but that doesn't negate VW's decade long market research and strategy of gutting its portfolio in the pursuit of market share, which has worked for them.

One thing we can probably agree on is that the car in the OP is probably destined to be another US market failure.
VW's cheap products are the volume sellers in every market and some of them are newly released. This isn't an America thing. Do you think a T-Cross or T-Roc are top quality? They sell a bunch of them to those Europeans with their fine tastes. I've been in them and they are like a Taos or Jetta inside, just smaller and with worse base powertrains and standard features. The Tiguan and Golf are basically the same as here. Also, the Taos is selling fine. Maybe more in a month than a Touareg would sell in a year (~4,500 units).

While the media may have painted the Atlas as replacing the Touareg, I don't see it that way at all. VW needed a North American built three-row family hauler to compete with the other mainstream brands in a very important segment. Brand new product segment for the brand that wasn't replacing anything. First they needed North American production capacity. The Atlas was born with similar quality to the existing competition. Have you been in a Highlander or Pilot lately? Not that great.

Meanwhile, almost unrelated, the second generation of a poor selling niche premium SUV called Touareg was wrapping up. VW said "No need to bring another gen here. The market has spoken, and we have 4 new SUVs coming anyway."
 
61 - 67 of 67 Posts
Top