So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ...

3928 Views 85 Replies 43 Participants Last post by Mike0105, Feb 10, 2002

DaBlackJetta

Discussion Starter · Feb 7, 2002

I'd have people lining up to purchase a 2.5" system? Would you buy it? Knowing that the 3" system made 13 more whp in my testing?
General opinion around here is that 3" is too big (I know its not, but who am I and what does my testing mean?!). So, this means if I make a 2.5" system as well, some of you would purchase it?
I easily have the ability to make 2.5" systems and would do it if I think they would sell. From all the negative posts about 3" being too large for the average turbo (its not), I would think that there would be a LOT of intrest in a 2.5" stainless steel system.

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AD

· #2 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (DaBlackJetta)

OBVIOUSLY this is the way to go-- but it's also (yes, obviously, too) the way to more expensive products.
As a "feeler" type thread I think most if not all will be voting for the both/both choice. Realistically? Perhaps the 3" in both stainless and alum, then the 2.5" in just alum? ..... just speaking my mind.
AD
another thought just came -- a lot of us don't plan on upgrading to turbo's bigger than K04's, if not leaving 'em stock (my plan)... so for us, just the sound/thought of 3" is a little... overkill. [?] Or, at least that's the way I feel.

[Modified by AD, 12:44 AM 2-7-2002]

BMGBeetle

· #3 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (DaBlackJetta)

Though it's for the same application, you might as well do both, to suit more people's needs. You deal in low volume, and good customer service. I think there should be more of the same. Not everyone has the budget to throw at a $1300 exhaust. A 2.5 TB, and the ability to mix and match all the components, would allow more people to "fit" it to their pocket depth/performance needs.
Since it seems you can save expenses by using 2.5 in stead of 3, then pass the savings on to the consumer. Just use the proven designs you have...
More options for everyone, makes sense to me

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jim wilson

· #4 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (BMGBeetle)

The parts to make a 3" system are ~$50 more than 2.5". With companies like TT doing 2.5 for almost nothing it's hard to compete

20V1.8Tnut

· #5 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (jim wilson)

A 2.5" DP/cat combo for $$ less than APR and NS would positively attract some buyers who would want better response rather then seeing HUGE power gains. I'd go with that (no K04 any time soon)

Levish

· #6 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (20V1.8Tnut)

the answer is simple 2.75in

should make fitting a downpipe and cat back with no rubbing simpler
but all in all I would have gone 3in and collected the last HP in the equation
I think despite the fact that the FM 3in exhaust gets a whole darn lot for the money most people balk at dropping 1,000+ at a time and it's not for rims

well if a 3in turbo back ever comes out for the 02 A4 from FM I will get it (right after my first 5k service too)

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BK Industries

· #7 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (Levish)

Yeah, I wonder what kind of numbers a 2.75" system will yield ? ? ?
If a 2.75" TB system yields anything close (+/- 5hp) to the 3" system, I'd consider getting it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

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Tybolltt

· #8 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (DaBlackJetta)

Okay, I don't mean to complicate things more than they already are, but from what I've learned 3inch is too large for stock size turbos. That being said most people out here aren't going to be doing a 'huge' turbo on their car. It's the exception to the rule not the rule it self. Why not try some coating on a 2.5inch system.
I personally think that both systems are a must, Supersprint does it. Forced Motion should do it too. I'm not going to give you any tips on customer service because you could be one of the most profesional vendors on the Vortex, but give the people what they want even though testing might not prove it works.
That being said: There is no person anywhere who can argue at all that a coated system all being equal will not outperform a none coated system. Heat wrap for example may be the ugliest thing in the world, but it wouldn't be on back order from every company I talk to if it didn't work.
James
By the way, I'm going 3inch lol.

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vr6Cop

· #9 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (DaBlackJetta)

quote:[HR][/HR]General opinion around here is that 3" is too big (I know its not, but who am I and what does my testing mean?!). So, this means if I make a 2.5" system as well, some of you would purchase it?[HR][/HR]

I agree with Greg here. With a naturally-aspirated car, you need some back pressure. So bigger is not always better. With a turbocharged car, back pressure is not a concern, especially the way the 1.8T is designed. So 3" is fine.

kid_knate

· #10 · Feb 7, 2002

...

whatever man... when time comes and my budget allows me, im going 3" al the way.

SilverGolf1.8t

· #11 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (DaBlackJetta)

Both would be cool! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Give people a choice, 2.5" or 3"

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20V1.8Tnut

· #12 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (vr6Cop)

ATP, Chris Green, and FM are all selling thier DP's with off-road pipe, which I don't need, and that is one of the reasons I will hold on buying their product and lookfor 2.5" DP/HF cat setups but...
If it comes to buying 3" DP/HF cat without paying for off-road pipe - I'm in. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
(with bigger turbo in mind)
P.S. If here is such a demand for K04, why for @%D's sake other turbo manufacturers cant come up with a turbocharger, that is more advanced than K04 that would fit right on the place of K03

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AZGolf

· #13 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (20V1.8Tnut)

quote:[HR][/HR]ATP, Chris Green, and FM are all selling thier DP's with off-road pipe, which I don't need, and that is one of the reasons I will hold on buying their product and lookfor 2.5" DP/HF cat setups but...
If it comes to buying 3" DP/HF cat without paying for off-road pipe - I'm in. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif [HR][/HR]

You can buy the FM downpipe with a 3" cat, not just a test pipe. In fact, last time I asked Greg about it, he said there is almost zero demand for test pipes - everyone buys the DP with the cat.

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20V1.8Tnut

· #14 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (AZGolf)

You can buy the FM downpipe with a 3" cat, not just a test pipe. In fact, last time I asked Greg about it, he said there is almost zero demand for test pipes - everyone buys the DP with the cat.[/QUOTE]

How much was it?

Mike0105

· #15 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (20V1.8Tnut)

FM exaust does come with a HF cat, if you want a test pipe you have to order it seperate form them. Greg lost HP with it (the test pipe) Also a 2.5" exhaust I think is plenty for most of you guys out there. Greg like Jim said ho cost ffective would it be for you to make a 2.5" sysem if a few guys out there are already making 2.5" cat abcks. I can see a 2.5" DP but I mean te market is flooded with 2.5" cat back exhausts already, nothing against yours but TT's is priced damn well and is a good performer.
Mike

tobyc

· #16 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (VWMike81)

I'd like to see the 3" system come in something a little quieter. I'd like the gains of a 3" system but don't want everyone in the vicinity to know that I'm running one if you get my drift.

chris86vw

· #17 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (vr6Cop)

quote:[HR][/HR]
I agree with Greg here. With a naturally-aspirated car, you need some back pressure. So bigger is not always better. With a turbocharged car, back pressure is not a concern, especially the way the 1.8T is designed. So 3" is fine. [HR][/HR]

If back pressure is a concern there is no way he woud ahve made 3-5 hp by adding a cat, that is a simple fact. A cat can only add back pressur enot take it away. Which means the 3" was too big and didnt' allow for enough back pressure until the cat was put in place.
I still think a 2.5" will perform better, or let me clear that up, have less problems, give FM a call and aks what those problems may be, they know.
chris
[email protected]

WindsorBlu01

· #18 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (tobyc)

I'm not sure what to choose, and I dont think I am yet because I'm not sure on the differences between the 3" and 2.5" exhausts. Is the 3" much louder and is the power difference also great between the two? Please inform me on all the other differences also that a 2.5" would have besides volume/power.

ChkYaHead

· #19 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (chris86vw)

When it comes to turbos..bigger exhaust is always better. What part of that don't you guys understand. the turbo provides plenty of back pressure anyway. The key is to get the turbo spooling up faster..the less back pressure the faster it will spool.
I don't see anyway a 3" would underperform a 2.5"

drm916

· #20 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: So, if 3" is too big, does that mean ... (chris86vw)

well I look at it this way
my 2.5in exhaust and K04 made 217 whp
others with a K04 and the 3in exhaust are making 199-210 whp.....

So which is it going to be???

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