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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have to ask this question on here as it is bugging me a bit, there does seem to be alot of people telling me to change my engine mangament from the stock VR6 one (Bosch), now i am going Turbocharged.
The thing is, there are quite a few Tuning companies that are selling turbocharger kits now, with the basis being the Stock Engine managment.
Ok this may be partialy to try and keep the costs of the conversion down but these companies, Matrix engineering, Eip Tuning, ATP, HPA/HGP turbo etc all keep the stock engine mangment for there lower conversions (upto about 350hp, though HPA/HGP keep it upto 450+ !!!)
I understand that the ideal Engine mangment for a Turbo car does contain a MAP sensor and not a MAF sensor amongst other controls etc etc along with more adjustments to the parameters.
But surely this mangament cant be so bad and the cars cant drive so badly, that all the above mentioned companies can be selling conversions using the stock mangament ??????

By the way i am only aiming to run 300hp (crank) baybe 350 later...



[Modified by keith_r, 11:16 PM 4-6-2002]
 

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Re: Stock Managment cant be that bad, can it ? (keith_r)

manufactures have to run configurations to a safety standard... there's alot of cars out that that have come turbocharged factory and were probrably detuned to a degree for safety against detonation, pinging, knock... as well as the need to maintain competitive gas milage... chipping or installing alternative engine management allows you to hone in to that ideal tuning more.
Tuning is key on turbo systems... getting the exact Air/fuel ratio's across the board, getting the flow and timing just right is crucial! It'll work just fine with the stock parameters. You say you're goal is 300whp, you can get there with the stock system I'd be sure of it ... but ... how would you feel if at 250whp you could install an alternate engine management system and get your 300whp, as opposed to needing to upgrade the turbo, upgrade injectors and fuel pump, and push a higher pressure to get your power?

Also, with the OBDII system in there things get a little messier. It is programed to opperate with in certain specifications, like injector duty cycle, and air flow, and exhaust temperatures, and cylinder pressure, and timing, and exhaust temps, and oxygen levels, and etc ... using a turbo will most likely increase about all of these in some fashion... exhaust runs hotter, air flow increase (
stating the obvious here hehe), gas consumption increases, most likely cylinder compression decreases. With all of this you improve the chance that you'll knock, ping, or even detonation. If the OBDII systems reads any of this happening it will take appropriate measures to cure the problem... typically the solution is retardation of the timing, decreasing injector flow... which will both result in lose of power. Or it may try to increase the flow of the injectors if it thinks there's not enough ... well if you're running 270ish hp at WOT, you may be close to 100% cycle on the injectors as it is...(I'm guessing at numbers cause I don't know exactly, but the theory is there) ... and if the ECU tries to push more fuel thru ... well it just doesn't work ...
SO... from my considerations I would think it would be a necessity to have alternate engine management to achieve big numbers. Personally even if I were only looking for 230ish hp I may first start with engine management (not the cheapest), I think that with proper managing you mods will be alot more effective and power creation will be alot more efficient.
and no the basic engine management configuration isn't bad... but it wasn't designed to handle boost and engine behavior outside what Vw expected it to.
 

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Re: Stock Managment cant be that bad, can it ? (keith_r)

Problems with boost and stock management is the MAF saturates and the injectors saturate. I don't know exact numbers but it probably starts causing problems around 250whp. Can't really do much about that! Could use a larger dia MAF and uprate the injectors to get around it, and I'm sure it could be quite useable for pretty big hp. IIRC, Matrix did just that on their turbo cars, at least for stages one and two.
Another problem is obviously the timing maps that you want with a boosted car aren't those that you want NA, obviously. Without proper tuning, you can have a big (re: kaboom) problem. There are some people that were trying MSD igntion retard boxes with the coil pack ignition systems, but I don't know if anyone got them working.
Either way, stand alone, if tuned correctly, is always good for a few more ponies than the stock management.
 

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Re: Stock Managment cant be that bad, can it ? (keith_r)

Keith_r- the 300hp mark is right where I want to be. Hopefully sometime this summer. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
So does anyone have a proven aftermarket management for the VR6(coilpack or not)? Obd1 or 2? Thanks for the info so far.
 
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