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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
In an effort to find more info about this car and make it easier to decide and select what will work best for your car, this will be the first thread I'm making dedicated to all the specs, data and details for suspension related products. I will update this OP as more info is found and most importantly, I would like to at least get the info down for the stock OEM components including stuff like:

Spring rates
Sway bar thickness and rates
Any other suspension related data
Dyno graphs showing damper and spring characteristics at different settings

Here is an interesting point that I will leave here:
**
VWR does not recommend sport springs on 4-Motion vehicles such as the Golf R and R32 as lowering the ride height from the factory does not offer a significant improvement and can even harm the ride and handling balance of these vehicles. For these vehicles the VWR Streetsport and Streetsport+ Coilover Systems are highly recommended.
Source
...A statement that many people who care about the handling of their cars have pointed out and agreed on before so it is interesting to now hear the same thing directly from VWR.

Update: A good read by @MaysEffect called Tuning woes & fundamental tuning guide. Read here.

Stock OEM
Spring Type/Rates: 180F/250R according to measurements by yellow bunny
Or 275F/225R based on rough estimates courtesy of ryeboy
Additional: Dampers Made by Sachs
Sway Bars:
Front 22mm Solid, Rear 21.7mm, 3mm wall thickness
Source

Note: You can replace OEM control arms and spindles (front only) with TT or Passat parts, which are aluminum and will save you unsprung weight. Passat parts are direct replacement with no change besides the weight reduction, TT parts add camber adjustability but they also widen your track by about 10mm per side (? please confirm about extra track width):More info here
SuperPro Control Arms are also available. See info below and here
R32 OEM LCA's are 10.25 lbs/ea and Passat are 6.4 lbs/ea
R32 Spindles are 9.8 lbs/ea and Passat are 6.4 lbs/ea
(weights according to ryeboy's calculations linked to above)

AST 4100
Spring Type/Rates:
2 Front 60mm Coilover Springs, 7" Long
2 Rear Swift 60mm Coilover Springs, 9" Long
The GTS package is 350 lbs/in front, 250 lbs/in rear
We can provide any available spring rates upon request...

for the R32 I'd suggest ordering with stiffer rates. They go for $2,099.00

Additional: Monotube design, http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=120_203&products_id=260


AST (other series)
Spring Type/Rates: N/A
Additional: Monotube design

Bilstein PSS10
Spring Type/Rates:
Front: E4-FD1-Y704A00 = progressive; initial rate 32.8N/mm (approx 190lbs/in), secondary rate 43.4N/mm (approx 250lbs/in)
Rear: E4-FD1-Y754A00 = progressive; initial rate 33.0N/mm (approx 190lbs/in), secondary rate 50.1N/mm (approx 285lbs/in)
Additional:
Adjustable compression & rebound dampening
Note about changing spring rates: Simply replacing the progressive rate springs with linear rates will significantly alter the ride characteristics, firmer without over powering the dampers (perhaps 300lbs/in front and 350lbs/in rear). 350#/in front springs (linear) and 400lbs/in rear (linear) would be the maximum I would recommend.
*I originally forgot to add this but thanks to JRutter for the info on the Bilsteins. I hope you don't mind me sharing this info with everyone.:thumbup:
Dyno Graph

B&G
Spring Type/Rates:
Linear Springs...rates?
Additional:
18-way adjustable dampening (rebound and compression)
Anodized aluminum alloy and powder coated steel
They also come with a limited lifetime warranty.
Height adjustable
Front 1.25-3.5" (32 - 89mm)
Rear 1.25-3.5" (32 - 89mm)

Effect Adjustable Control Arms
Only available in the Japanese market as of the posting.
More info?

Epic Euro Tuning Ultra Adjustable Control Arms
Camber Adjustment made by sliding moving ball joint in or out.
Additional camber adjustment can be made without having to touch the ball joint via the linkage adjuster.
Caster can be adjusted by turning the single long tube.
Adjustments are made much more precise by being able to turn the adjusters as little or as much as you'd like.
Weighs 4.5lbs vs. 7lbs stock arm.
Fully tig welded.
Discussion starts here.

Ground Control
Camber Plates
Additional: Allow camber and caster adjustment, as well as access to adjustable struts. There is No change in ride height, and NO LOSS OF SUSPENSION TRAVEL. An oversize American central bearing to reduce flex, yet using a waterproof German steering bearing which is rebuildable (unlike the stock parts) for smooth steering. .Designed for track use, and utilizing quality Aurora spherical bearings, the Ground Control camber/caster plates are machined only for use with coil-over springs. More info here: http://performanceshock.com/--c-41_139/ccpmkv

HPA SHS
Spring Type/Rates:
Front: Linear/NA
Rear: Progressive/NA
Additional:
Height adjustable
Front: 25-55mm
Rear: 35-60mm

ISC N1
Spring Type/Rates:
Front: Sport/Street: 560 lbs, Track: 672 lbs
Rear: Sport/Street: 336 lbs, Track: 448 lbs
Additional:
Height, Pre-load and Dampening adjustable
Sport Springs or Track Springs (dampening builds are different from each other)

JIC ZMS coilovers (one of the newer options)
Stainless steel Front 43mm piston rod w/Inverted Monotube + Caster/Camber plates (spherical bearing top mount/roller bearing spring perch) - rebound/compression adjustment (top)
Aluminum Rear 48mm Upside-down Monotube rear spherical bearing lower mount - rebound/compression adjustment (bottom)
2.5inch i.d Linear front (8kg x 6.5") and rear (6kg x 8") + *low rate tender springs front- optional spring rates available
JDM style shock body height adjustments.
Adjustable spring perch with integrated endlink mount. Adjustable endlinks with metal/metal ball joints
Contact @MaysEffect for more details

Koni 2100 FSD 4020 kit
Spring Type/Rates: Dampers only. Made to use with stock springs/height, can also be revalved to match any spring rate like any other dampers, but...
Additional: Dual Flow Valve (similar to Ohlin design). Should be able to use with slightly different from stock height and spring rates. More info.

KSport Kontrol Pro Damper System
Spring Type/Rates: Seem to be Linear
Front: 504 lbs (optional 672, 896)
Rear: 252 lbs (optional 336, 448, 1008)
Additional: Height/Compression/Rebound adjustable, Monotube construction, Camber Plates built in front mounts.

KW V1
Spring Type/Rates: Progressive/NA
Additional:
Height adjustable
Front: 0.8"-1.8"
Rear: 0.4"-1.4"
ST Coilovers have the same specs, just different finish (inox-line on KW for "100% rust free" or just Galvanized for ST)

KW V2
Spring Type/Rates: Progressive/NA
Additional:
Height adjustable
Front: 0.8"-1.8"
Rear: 0.4"-1.4"
Adjustable rebound dampening

KW V3
Spring Type/Rates: Progressive/NA
Additional:
Height adjustable
Front: 0.8"-1.8"
Rear: 0.4"-1.4"
Adjustable compression & rebound dampening

KW Clubsport
Spring Type/Rates: Linear Springs / 514lb front / 400lb rear
Additional: Come with Front Camber Plates
Height adjustable
Front: 0.8"-1.8" TUV Approved Ride Height (can go a lot lower)
Rear: 0.4"-1.4" TUV Approved Ride Height (can go a lot lower)
2-Way adjustable

Moton
Spring Type/Rates: NA
Additional: These should be comparable to Ohlins and most likely custom setup.

Neuspeed Spring Kit
Spring Type/Rates: Progressive Springs / 300lb Front / 330lb Rear
Additional:
Lowers approx. 1.4 (F) & 1.4 (R) (I'm assuming inchs)

Neuspeed Rear Anti-Sway Bar - 25mm
Additional:
2 Hole adjustable (would love to know at least how much it increases stiffness at different settings)

Neuspeed Front Anti-Sway Bar - 25mm
Again, would like to know how much stiffer it is compared to stock

Ohlin VWS MI00 (OEM replacement dampers)
Spring Type/Rates: Made to use with stock springs, can also be revalved to match any spring rate like any other dampers, but...
Front: 450 lbs is recommended by Ohlin and other suspension specialists
Rear: 350 lbs is recommended by Ohlin and other suspension specialists
(See discussion relating to spring rates later in this thread, starting here)
Additional: Dual Flow Valve, Monotube design
Dyno Graph and links to more info/discussion HERE.

Ohlin VWSMI10 Coilovers
Spring Type/Rates: Linear
Front: 70 N/mm or ~400 lbs
Rear: 60 N/mm or ~350 lbs
Additional: Dual Flow Valve, Monotube design
These ARE NOT AWD tested yet but are made by Ohlin from what seems to be the same Dampers above (Ohlin VWS MI00) and I would imagine they will work fine (don't trust me;)).
Details Here.

Ohlin/PSI Coilover Kit
Spring Type/Rates: Linear/TBA (PSI usually works with their customers to determine the right spring rate for each individual's needs)
Additional: External Canister Dampers up Front, TTX Inline Dampers for Rear. Camber plate included for mounting strut and canisters.
Announcement and info starts Here.
This should be the ultimate suspension currently available off the shelf for our cars but I'll wait for more details...

Sachs Performance Coilover Kit
Spring Type/Rates: NA
Additional:
Housing diameter: 50 mm
Chass. lowered from: 30mm to: 50mm
More: http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sac...n::446.html?XTCsid=lv979reuthqrnvmfcjo90aqt77

SuperPro Performance Control Arms
Highlights:
7.5 lbs/ea (compared to 10.25 lbs/ea for OEM R32 LCAs)
Corrosion resistant Supaloy
Smart Bushing and Mount Design
Special low friction stainless steel insert
Bushing bonded direct to high-stress alloy bracket
Smart Bushing and Mount Design
Special low friction stainless steel insert
Bushing bonded direct to high-stress alloy bracket
Performance Grip Dynamics
Up to 1.5 Deg extra dynamic positive caster
Supertrac Anti-lift geometry for more traction

SuperPro Ball Joint Roll Control Roll Centre Kit
Highlights:
-Corrects roll center geometry compromised by lowering a vehicle (Designed for standard Golfs so with already slightly lower R32s, these are fine at stock height for R32s. Explanation here.)
-Adds adjustable camber
-Dramatically improves mid-corner stability
-Raises roll center
-Improved weight distribution and front end grip
-Reduces understeer through reduced front wheel compression
-Improves steering, precision & vehicle stability

EXPLANATION: Each suspension system front and rear has a roll center. The vehicles roll center greatly influences how the body of the vehicle will perform. Roll centers are set by engineers in the design process of a vehicle to give optimum handling with minimum body roll at the required ride height and center of gravity position. Lowering a vehicle does not necessarily improve handling. If a vehicle is lowered beyond its ideal roll center, this change increases the rate of change to the suspension causing faster and greater body roll. The vehicles stability and traction is adversely affected. When these ball joints are fitted to a lowered vehicle, the roll center position is improved, helping to reduce body roll and improve the vehicle’s handling and balance by maintain maximum tire road contact. More info here and here.

Tein Spring Kit SKV90-AUB00
Spring Type/Rates:
Progressive
Front: 207 lbs/in
Rear: 286 lbs/in
Additional:
Lowers 1" (some specs say 1.5"?)
http://www.tein.com/products/s_tech_price_list.html
Tein seems to have a coilover kit with 450lbs/in front & rear springs.

VW Racing Springs
Spring Type/Rates:
Linear
Front: 35 N/mm or ~200 lbs/in
Rear: 45 N/mm or ~257 lbs/in
Additional:
Front Lowering - 10-15mm or .4" - .6"
Rear Lowering - 8-13mm or .3" - .5"
**The comment above about VWR not recommending lowering springs for the R32 seems to have been negated due to this new spring design.


VW Racing
Spring Type/Rates: Progressive or Linear options available no rates currently available
Front: ?
Rear: ?
Additional: Fixed or adjustable damper options available. Camber plates available but they only work with VWR coilover components.
More info here: http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/vwcore/suspension/
Sway Bars:
Front: 26mm solid, Rear: 23mm solid (these seem to be for FWD applications at the moment but AWD supposed to be coming soon)


Air Suspension
For those interested, check this post
Some updates regarding Air Suspension starting here.


There are several other brands and products I have not listed so please add on and provide as much info as possible to make this thread as useful as it can be. We need threads like this for other stuff like exhaust too...

Here are some good suspension shops that can help with questions and customizations for many of the setups:
http://performanceshock.com/
http://www.vorshlag.com/
 

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Here's some info on my KW Clubsports.

Spring Type/Rates: Linear Springs / 514lb front / 400lb rear
Additional: Come with Front Camber Plates
Height adjustable
Front: 0.8"-1.8" TUV Approved Ride Height (can go a lot lower)
Rear: 0.4"-1.4" TUV Approved Ride Height (can go a lot lower)
2-Way adjustable





 

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Here's some info on my KW Clubsports.

Spring Type/Rates: Linear Springs / 514lb front / 400lb rear
Additional: Come with Front Camber Plates
Height adjustable
Front: 0.8"-1.8" TUV Approved Ride Height (can go a lot lower)
Rear: 0.4"-1.4" TUV Approved Ride Height (can go a lot lower)
2-Way adjustable
See this just pisses me off, I should have just gone with the clubsports. The V1-3 apparently are progressive rate 510 to 340 with v2-3 a dampening nipple to twist.

KW V1 is nice for the daily and cleans up that flaccid feeling the oem displays. But track is a no go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks Ryan! It's interesting they chose to go with stiffer springs on the front. Generally you get stiffer rear springs in performance oriented setups to get rid of the understeer inherent in the way most (if not all) stock suspensions are tuned. It's possible they figure people will use the kit with a RSB because the rates still seem a bit low for a track setup.

Care to share how the handling feels compared to stock or any other setup you've tried? Please include details on other parts you may have changed that would influence the outcome.
 

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I held off from modding the car because I knew I wanted that to be my first and one of my best mods, so I waited out and got a deal on Nebby's suspension that was barely used.

See this just pisses me off, I should have just gone with the clubsports. The V1-3 apparently are progressive rate 510 to 340 with v2-3 a dampening nipple to twist.

KW V1 is nice for the daily and cleans up that flaccid feeling the oem displays. But track is a no go.
Well, since the VR6 engine is so heavy, that's why the big difference in rates from front to rear. KW designs their kits and tests on their 7-post dyno which no other suspension manufacture (aftermarket) has, only car manufactures and F1 Teams use this. There's a nice short article Super Street put out, check it out.

KW designed the kit without any aftermarkets bars, so I don't intend to ever change the front/rear bar, why mess with what they tuned. I feel all I needed to do was stiffen up the car all around without changing too much. So, I have some of the best shocks, good solid linear springs, camber adjustability, and if they need to be rebuilt that can easily be done.

As far as understeer issues, they're kept to a minimum if you drive the correct line. TechEd and others have mentioned that the R32 is a late apex car. So, at the track running a late apex will result the best time in most instances and keep you from running off the track, haha.

I've thought about solid bushings, but haven't pulled the trigger on them. They do wear out faster.

Also, if H2sport ever comes out with their front carriers, I would probably buy those. I hear they can hold 1G through a turn and really make the front of the car hook.

Thanks Ryan! It's interesting they chose to go with stiffer springs on the front. Generally you get stiffer rear springs in performance oriented setups to get rid of the understeer inherent in the way most (if not all) stock suspensions are tuned. It's possible they figure people will use the kit with a RSB because the rates still seem a bit low for a track setup.

Care to share how the handling feels compared to stock or any other setup you've tried? Please include details on other parts you may have changed that would influence the outcome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well, since the VR6 engine is so heavy, that's why the big difference in rates from front to rear. KW designs their kits and tests on their 7-post dyno which no other suspension manufacture (aftermarket) has, only car manufactures and F1 Teams use this. There's a nice short article Super Street put out, check it out.

KW designed the kit without any aftermarkets bars, so I don't intend to ever change the front/rear bar, why mess with what they tuned. I feel all I needed to do was stiffen up the car all around without changing too much. So, I have some of the best shocks, good solid linear springs, camber adjustability, and if they need to be rebuilt that can easily be done.

As far as understeer issues, they're kept to a minimum if you drive the correct line. TechEd and others have mentioned that the R32 is a late apex car. So, at the track running a late apex will result the best time in most instances and keep you from running off the track, haha.

I've thought about solid bushings, but haven't pulled the trigger on them. They do wear out faster.

Also, if H2sport ever comes out with their front carriers, I would probably buy those. I hear they can hold 1G through a turn and really make the front of the car hook.
Very true and most AWD cars do have later apexes. The main thing is most cars are tuned to have a bit of understeer from the factory and if you look at track prepped suspensions, they usually have stiffer rear for more neutral or oversteer if anything. After driving the car more, I do agree that understeer can be eliminated depending on how you drive. I have a feeling KW tries to improve performance while still keeping some of the "saftey" of the stock handling characteristics and that's why they decided on those rates. I'm assuming this based on their rates for other cars where I know they also use stiffer front springs while I know for a fact that track setups proven by winning race teams use stiffer rear for the same car.
 

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I don't have any experience with coils. So if I'm the spirited daily driving type, with a few summer auto-X days, and maybe a couple trips a year to a real track what should I look into? I threw an Eiback pro-kit and Neuspeed rear sway on my last MkIV. I loved it for daily driving and I got props from a Porsche driving instructor at auto-X for how neutral it was. Looking to repeat that with the R. The V Maxx kit advertised on this forum looked interesting. Oh, I'm on a reservist/student budget too so $3k KW clubsports are out of the question.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I don't have any experience with coils. So if I'm the spirited daily driving type, with a few summer auto-X days, and maybe a couple trips a year to a real track what should I look into? I threw an Eiback pro-kit and Neuspeed rear sway on my last MkIV. I loved it for daily driving and I got props from a Porsche driving instructor at auto-X for how neutral it was. Looking to repeat that with the R. The V Maxx kit advertised on this forum looked interesting. Oh, I'm on a reservist/student budget too so $3k KW clubsports are out of the question.
If you are on a budget and want to get the most out of your car, I'd spend your money on more driver's training. I know the Eibach Pro kits are usually a very nice balance of price/comfort/performance but I really don't think you need them on this car. Personally, I would do the Haldex controller before either coilovers or sway bars. I just made a long post recently about how stiffer sway bars take away the independent characteristics of your suspension the stiffer you get (wheel lift) and there is a separate thread all about it but it is a cheap and quick way to make the handling feel more neutral...even on stock suspension. I still think the best way is to get stiffer springs and dampers that match to control your handling however you like it. If we can get more data compiled in this thread about different rates and people's experiences, I think one of the best things to do is build your own custom suspension to do exactly what you want. Get a set of Koni dampers and springs from Swift and have the dampers revalved to match whatever spring rate you go with and you will probably have a better setup than most of the off the shelf coilover kits for less money.
 

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KW was my top pick on suspension and first modification, after 3 track events I realized the oem was stealing the joy of the track. I am working on changing the springs out now, that way if and when I run again the rear won't Peter out. I have video of my best run at TG.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
KW was my top pick on suspension and first modification, after 3 track events I realized the oem was stealing the joy of the track. I am working on changing the springs out now, that way if and when I run again the rear won't Peter out. I have video of my best run at TG.
Cool, what are your plan for the springs? Just replacing worn ones with the same or changing it up?
 

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Cool, what are your plan for the springs? Just replacing worn ones with the same or changing it up?
I am getting the springs that came with the V1 tested for exact spring rates or at least find what there varying weights are. Then see if vogtland or Eibach can do something for me. Also going to talk to KW...again to see what they can do. The suspension is good for the daily drive and spirited driving, but open it up and let all he'll loose on the track,NO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I am getting the springs that came with the V1 tested for exact spring rates or at least find what there varying weights are. Then see if vogtland or Eibach can do something for me. Also going to talk to KW...again to see what they can do. The suspension is good for the daily drive and spirited driving, but open it up and let all he'll loose on the track,NO.
Yeah, none of the spring rates I've seen for this car seem ideal for tracking to me. Eibach should be good but I would avoid Vogtland springs. Swift makes some very good springs that a lot of people use to replace springs that come with coilovers they just bought so I would suggest looking into them if you haven't yet. Most dampers can work with springs within 200lbs of whatever they were designed for so any more and you should probably have them revalved.
 

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OEM isn't bad at all, maybe just some better shock absorbers wouldn't be a bad idea. I ran a bunch of track days all OEM.

I don't have any experience with coils. So if I'm the spirited daily driving type, with a few summer auto-X days, and maybe a couple trips a year to a real track what should I look into? I threw an Eiback pro-kit and Neuspeed rear sway on my last MkIV. I loved it for daily driving and I got props from a Porsche driving instructor at auto-X for how neutral it was. Looking to repeat that with the R. The V Maxx kit advertised on this forum looked interesting. Oh, I'm on a reservist/student budget too so $3k KW clubsports are out of the question.
The V1 springs are progressive, right? If so, you could get some linear springs from KW that will match the shock valving you currently have.

I am getting the springs that came with the V1 tested for exact spring rates or at least find what there varying weights are. Then see if vogtland or Eibach can do something for me. Also going to talk to KW...again to see what they can do. The suspension is good for the daily drive and spirited driving, but open it up and let all he'll loose on the track,NO.
OP: please add an entry for AST, they make a nice R suspension that's under $2000...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
OEM isn't bad at all, maybe just some better shock absorbers wouldn't be a bad idea. I ran a bunch of track days all OEM.



The V1 springs are progressive, right? If so, you could get some linear springs from KW that will match the shock valving you currently have.



OP: please add an entry for AST, they make a nice R suspension that's under $2000...
Yeah, I think people really need to learn to drive the car on stock suspension before they even think about changing anything..especially if they never drove an AWD car before. There is definite room for improvement but I doubt most people can push the stock setup to its limits consistently.

I added AST but with no data:(
 

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FV-QR

I want more info on the AST setup..... :eek:


Edit- I plan on doing a LOT of track seat-time on the OEM suspension... Put it to work, then upgrade when I have SOLID information on these coilover setups and choose a suspension that will work to my driving style.

I'm just glad there's more than a few of us out there that won't settle for hearsay and opinions when it comes to aftermarket coilovers... We want the nitty gtitty facts and details, and won't settle for anything less. :beer:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Edit- I plan on doing a LOT of track seat-time on the OEM suspension... Put it to work, then upgrade when I have SOLID information on these coilover setups and choose a suspension that will work to my driving style.

I'm just glad there's more than a few of us out there that won't settle for hearsay and opinions when it comes to aftermarket coilovers... We want the nitty gtitty facts and details, and won't settle for anything less. :beer:
Exactly...Luckily, I'm sure we are not the first and the basic rules of physics apply so we can take data from other similar cars to make a decent guess at what will work. Here is what I posted yesterday before I made this thread:
I would go anywhere from 600F, 700R to around 1000lbs for spring rates depending on how aggressive/track you want it....My guess is that the stock spring rates are around 200-300lbs tops and most aftermarket setups people are buying for this car are no more than 400-500lbs...just do the math with how much the car weighs and it's no wonder the car feels like mush without some help.

Seems like I was very close on my guesses based on what we know so far.

Anyone have info or links on how to properly spec spring length for a given rate given the weight of the car, travel, etc?
Not sure but I know the guys at Swift could probably help you with that. There is a lot of good info on their site and they may even have your answer there already. http://www.swiftsprings.net/faq.html
I would hope that any competent suspension shop should be able to help too. Things like spring type, material and other things are probably factors.
 

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Yeah, I think people really need to learn to drive the car on stock suspension before they even think about changing anything..especially if they never drove an AWD car before. There is definite room for improvement but I doubt most people can push the stock setup to its limits consistently.

I added AST but with no data:(
What does that even mean? Learn to drive the car on stock suspension? How do you push a stock suspension to it's limits? To the point you're losing control? Can you push the stock setup to its limits consistently? :confused:

If all goes according to plan, I should take a ride in an R32 with an AST suspension done along with a full whiteline kit (amongst other things, i.e. schrick 268's) tomorrow.

Who's got two thumbs and is excited? This guy.

As far as I'm concerned though, I was able to come up on a great deal on my H&R coils that were mildly used for only 500$. Aesthetically, the car looks better (arguable of course). Performancewise, body roll has been been reduced drastically and the car feels tons more planted. I feel more connected to the asphalt - heaps more than I did with the OEM suspension and I'm incredibly pleased with the result of a 500 dollar investment.

Are they the absolutely best on the market? Highly unlikely but as with most mods we do to our cars, our reactions or feedback to said mods are mostly subjective, regardless of what the numbers say.

As far as hearsay, opinions or "following the masses" as I've heard before, do reviews and testimonials of others play absolutely no part in the purchase making process? What's the point of browsing forums like this one or other sites that allow for post-purchase reviews? :screwy:

Again, regardless of the number crunching - many purchases (car-related or not) we make are highly influenced by the personal reviews of others considering we can't exactly "test drive" specific sets of coilovers considering in most cases, their in a warehouse somewhere across the country or world.

But I digress - it's nice to have actual numbers tallied up somewhere. But at the end of the day, regardless of what the numbers say or do to prove that aftermarket suspension A is better than aftermarket suspension B, all that matters is if you, as the consumer is happy with them or not.

:beer::beer:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I agree with most of what you said and the point of this thread is to have some data as well as actual sharing experiences so people can make the best decision for what they want. Didn't you see me ask people how their suspension felt to them? In the end, whatever anyone says can mean something or nothing at all but data doesn't lie.

And what does it mean to learn to drive the car on stock suspension? It means exactly that. If you cannot push the car to its limits consistently...Here is one example of what that means in data terms: Be able to go around a known track or anything measurable at a comparable time as what was recorded that the car should be able to do. Obviously, we all aren't the best drivers in the world so you may never match that number but if you can't even get close consistently then you are obviously doing something wrong in your driving technique and you should learn how to fix that. The main reason I say that is because there are so many people who can't drive worth a damn and they think that buying things will make them a better driver. These people are very dangerous because those products they buy just push the capability of the car even further than stock when they couldn't even properly control the stock car and at those levels, once they go past the capability of the car, it will be much harder to recover, resulting in crashes that could hurt them and others. I totally understand the logic that suspension improves your car and "what's wrong with that, even if I can't use it but just want it?", but that is just not how I or many other people like to do things. Hopefully this thread will help people who want to know more about the things they buy and for those who don't, this thread surely doesn't hurt does it?

What does that even mean? Learn to drive the car on stock suspension? How do you push a stock suspension to it's limits? To the point you're losing control? Can you push the stock setup to its limits consistently? :confused:

If all goes according to plan, I should take a ride in an R32 with an AST suspension done along with a full whiteline kit (amongst other things, i.e. schrick 268's) tomorrow.

Who's got two thumbs and is excited? This guy.

As far as I'm concerned though, I was able to come up on a great deal on my H&R coils that were mildly used for only 500$. Aesthetically, the car looks better (arguable of course). Performancewise, body roll has been been reduced drastically and the car feels tons more planted. I feel more connected to the asphalt - heaps more than I did with the OEM suspension and I'm incredibly pleased with the result of a 500 dollar investment.

Are they the absolutely best on the market? Highly unlikely but as with most mods we do to our cars, our reactions or feedback to said mods are mostly subjective, regardless of what the numbers say.

As far as hearsay, opinions or "following the masses" as I've heard before, do reviews and testimonials of others play absolutely no part in the purchase making process? What's the point of browsing forums like this one or other sites that allow for post-purchase reviews? :screwy:

Again, regardless of the number crunching - many purchases (car-related or not) we make are highly influenced by the personal reviews of others considering we can't exactly "test drive" specific sets of coilovers considering in most cases, their in a warehouse somewhere across the country or world.

But I digress - it's nice to have actual numbers tallied up somewhere. But at the end of the day, regardless of what the numbers say or do to prove that aftermarket suspension A is better than aftermarket suspension B, all that matters is if you, as the consumer is happy with them or not.

:beer::beer:
 

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As far as "hearsay" I mean that 99% of our community focuses on how low a setup goes, not necessarily how well they perform. I didn't mean to sound too far off on that...

As for reaching the limits on the stock suspension... I can tell you that my Rabbit handled miles better with gti shocks/euro gti springs than when it was corner-balanced with Ksports and a C2 stage custom (in autox it never got into full boost, so it didn't really count). In both instances, the car had a Whiteline 24mm RSB, Boxster Brembos w/ Hawk HPS pads, and the same 225 Nitto Gen's.

With the Ksports, there was snap under/oversteer when you felt like you were "near" your cornering limits, the abs was all over the place (like hard braking to transfer the weight of the car before I threw it through a turn)... Honestly... It was a trainwreck to try to flog around an autox course... It was terrible to be honest. I spent many weekends trying to get the dampening correct (thanks to many local scca members), and still.. Results weren't what you'd expect for a setup like that... The car honestly probably would have handled better on R comps, but I never got to test that theory.

Now the next couple of events I did after I parted ways with the Ksports was well... Amazing. The car had body roll for days (compared to the Ksports). It didn't "feel" sporty at all compared to the latter setup, but the times/performance spoke for themselves. My wheels didn't break loose through corners, they actually did their job and pulled the car through a turn so much better... I actually could feel when the suspension was getting near the point of breaking loose in a slalom as opposed to feeling firm, then breaking loose out of nowhere. On the old setup I honestly thought my tires sucked... Turns out I was wrong about that. The abs worked how it was supposed to... It didn't lock up/not work at all when hard braking. It was like the car woke up and was like "hey, how ya doin? I'm going to work with you today and give you feedback... Yeah... Lots of feedback." No joke.

It was to the point where I was flat out on the courses with confidence, and knocked tons of time off of my laps... The car even came loose on me, but I felt it coming, and was able to save it (and still tied with my best time of the day... Which pissed me off because if I didn't lose it, it would have beaten a number of anal cooperS guys...).

Since running that setup, I honestly can't really knock the stock suspension on the R until I try it out (it's going on tomorrow, lol). TechEd makes some solid points and very technical reading material in his writeup on the mkv chassis.. Sometimes it drags out a bit, but it's something to consider checking out...
 
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