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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i'm going to assume that you already checked out the Porsche VK 45.01 (P) in this post: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=918698 . if not check that out first.
ok, so you saw the Panzerkampfwagen in the other post, but now it's time for the Porsche 205 (quite a few before the 356
):



http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz7.htm
"The development of super heavy tank started as early as 1941, when Krupp started the studies of superheavy Soviet tanks. In early 1942, Krupp produced designs of Tiger-Maus (VK7001) and PzKpfw VII Lowe (VK7201), but on March 5/6th of 1942, order for heavier tank was placed. Lowe never reached the prototype stage but paved the way for their successor's development. On March 21/22nd of 1942, Porsche received the contract for new 100-ton Panzer - VK10001 / Porsche Typ 205. On April 14/15th, it specified that new 100-ton tank must carry at least 100 rounds of ammunition. VK10001 was to be developed by Professor Ferdinand Porsche and Dr.Muller (Krupp) at the personal demand of Adolf Hitler made in May of 1942. He demanded 120-ton "indestructible" super-heavy tank armed with high performance L/60 or L/72 gun.
On June 23rd of 1942, Porsche provided their design for improved VK10001 armed with turret mounted 150mm L/37 and 105mm L/70 guns. Porsche promised that first prototype will be ready in May of 1943. In December of 1942, new armaments such as 150mm gun, 127mm naval gun, 128mm Flak and the longest version of 128mm were considered. Also in the same month, it was restated that first vehicle was to be ready in Summer of 1943, followed by the production 5 per month. First official names VK10001 and Porsche Typ 205 ("Mammoth") were used in April of 1942, followed by Maeuschen (Mousy) in December of 1942 and Maus (Mouse) in February of 1943.
Some sources state that according to Porsche, Hitler's aim for the Maus was to plug holes in the Atlantic coastal defenses on the Western Front, where it's limited range and mobility wouldn't have been too much of a hindrance. The popular version states that V2 prototype was blown up by the personnel at proving grounds in Kummersdorf, while some sources state that actually V2 saw combat while defending the facility at Kummersdorf. When war ended, almost finished V1 turret and third hull were found at Krupp facilities in Essen.
Overall, Maus was an interesting design but it would be of limited combat value because of its poor mobility and heavy weight making it more of a mobile fortification rather than a super tank. One fully assembled example (V2 turret mounted on V1 hull) was tested at Kubinka in 1951/52 and can be seen today in the Museum of Armored Forces in Kubinka (near Moscow) in Russia.
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pretty cool huh? i first heard about this Porsche design when I was 7 years old. i'm a bigtime war history buff and I remember seeing pictures of it in various books at the library. i even named one of the servers here at work after the "Monster Maus".

enjoy!
obin
 

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Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (Obin Robinson)

I just find it ironic that something this big would be called the 'mouse'.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (MrRoboto)

Quote, originally posted by MrRoboto »
I just find it ironic that something this big would be called the 'mouse'.

that irony is by design and it's psychological. how?
- if you fear the "mouse" (supposedly a small creature) then something named the "giant" will probably be scarier
- you'd never expect a "mouse" to be that big.
also, the Panzers had animal names: Elefant, Tiger, Grille, Wespe, Flamingo, Bison, etc.

obin
 

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Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (Obin Robinson)

The T-34 was called the micky mouse
 

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Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (Obin Robinson)

An early design that actually saw combat. In this instance Porsche's design was a flawed one. This is one of my fav vehicles of all time, the Tiger II.
The Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger II Ausf. B "Königstiger" (Sd.Kfz.182) Porsche designed turret was delivered to the Schwere Heeres Panzer Abteilung 503 which was selected for deployment in the west due to its complement of Tiger II's and used to fill their authorized strength of 45 Tigers which included 33 Tiger 1's and 12 Tiger II's. The entire 503rd was loaded on eight trains and transported to the Western Front on 27 June '44 and first engaged in combat July 11 during the battles in Normandy. Only two Tiger II's managed to survive battles near the river siene and at that time had been painted the typical Normandy Camo. On 9 September the 503rd was ordered out of the west, resupplied with 43 additional Henschel Tigers and shipped via train to Hungary on 14, Oct.
When the orders where issued to develop a replacement for the Tiger I, Porsche and Henchel where given the responsibility to develop the tank. Porsche was given the order VK4502(P) and Henshcel received VK4502(H). Both had been manufacturing the Tiger I and both developed there own style of heavy tanks. Porsche had manufactured 50 turrets with the ill fated round nose. The problem with this design was, that with a rather well placed (or lucky) shot, the round nosed Porsche turret could deflect the incoming round down into the thin top armor of the hull, thus destroying the tank. Only the 50 original turrets that Porsche had manufactured were fitted to hulls and sent to the field. The Henshcel turret became the standard turret for the Köningstiger. The Könings employed mainly slopping armor, as was learned from the encounters with the Russian T-34. The reasoning behind this design was to increase the depth of the armor for close combat situation, and to help deflect incoming enemy rounds. This could have be done with vertical armor but the weight increase would have be enormous.

The awesome firepower of the Tiger II was well respected by all who encountered it. it's 71 caliber, 88mm Gun, 23 pound shell and 3281 fps shell velocity was capable of penetrating 6.25 inches of armour plating at 2000 yards. Coupled with it's heavy armor the Tiger II was considered the most powerful combat tank of World War II. Up to the end of the war, the Allies did not introduce anything that could effectively counter it. Even the U.S. M26 and M36's bigger 90mm guns had significantly less shell velocity which required strategic hits at closer range in order to effectively disable the Tiger II.



 

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Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (Obin Robinson)

Quote, originally posted by Obin Robinson »


also, the Panzers had animal names: Elefant, Tiger, Grille, Wespe, Flamingo, Bison, etc.

obin

That´s one of the few traditions the Bundeswehr took over from the Wehrmacht:
Dingo:

Elefant (Elephant):

Wolf:

Fuchs (Fox):

Luchs (Lynx):

Fennek:

Bieber (Beaver):

Büffel (Buffalo):

Dachs (Badger):

Jaguar:

Keiler (Boar):

Leopard 2:

Marder:

Ozelot (Ocelot):

Skorpion (Scorpion):

Wiesel (Weasel):
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (Obin Robinson)

bump up... did anyone catch the History Channel "Heavy Metal" series this weekend? they had some cool info on the old German WWII tanks and mentioned Porsche a few times

obin
 

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Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (Obin Robinson)

To put this beast into perspective...

The M1 MBT is ONLY ~60 tons.
 

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Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (Eolair)

Quote »

Haha, what possible purpose could this thing serve? It's like the golf cart of the tank world.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (wdegroot)

Quote, originally posted by wdegroot »

Haha, what possible purpose could this thing serve? It's like the golf cart of the tank world.

it's better than a "technical"
. also that size means it can be transported by helicopter or aircraft easier. i bet it fits down narrow european streets better than even many armored cars

obin
 

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Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (Obin Robinson)

pretty funny that the maus had a 105mm for a coaxial
that weasel looks fun
 

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Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (dolemite)

I thought the first Porsche was a train? Or was that before Porsche (the company, not the Dr).
Jeff
 

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Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (Obin Robinson)

Quote, originally posted by Obin Robinson »

it's better than a "technical"
. also that size means it can be transported by helicopter or aircraft easier. i bet it fits down narrow european streets better than even many armored cars

obin

It´s also VW TDI powered.
But here´s the main reason they exist:

They´re pretty flexible.
And I´d say they´re providing more protection than a "technical" (or a Hummer with a MG)
 

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Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (wdegroot)

Quote, originally posted by wdegroot »

Haha, what possible purpose could this thing serve? It's like the golf cart of the tank world.

anti aircraft?
small enough to be hard to hit... big enough gun to cause some aerial damage
 

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saw a leopard demo on AMP day when iwas in europe back in 1974, beautiful machine, they had all the latest stabilized barrel stuff that the M1's have now, nice diesel too, but my favourite is still the panther....
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: (santacll)

bump up as a reminder for the people who have short-term memories

obin
 

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Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (wdegroot)

I want one of these for the morning commute.

I think it would also be really cool to take it autocrossing. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Re: the 188 ton Porsche that predates all the sports cars (Eolair)

Quote, originally posted by Eolair »

Ozelot (Ocelot):


Ocelot?


I'm sucha video game nerd.

Although I d recall the "wolf" being used rather extensively by the Marine Corps as a vehicle that could get through the streets of third world countries better than Hummers.
 
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