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Wow, Very True

I beloeve Hamilton will want to end his carrer in Ferrari trying to get them on top again.
That means Vettel will either retire or go back to Red Bull for a last year.
I dont think Alonso is really an option as Honda might well be on the right track but is still not at Mercedes level. So Alonso will not be happy once again.
Verstappen is really fast, maybe the fastest right now, but cracks when his teammate performs better than him. He was trying so hard to beat Ricciardo in qualifying that crashed most of the times. On the other hand, he performs better with weaker teammates, so Ferrari will not be an option if Leclerc stays there. So I m guessing he will drive for Mercedes.
The thing is that the only man who can take full advantage of the new 2021 aero regulations is in Red Bull. So in my opinion, that's the team to get championships then.

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This is a very interesting take and one I hadn't thought about. :thumbup:

With new regulations it's going to come down to who can engineer the best car the fastest and Adrian Newey is the aero visionary of our time.

Ferrari can't find their azzes with the lights on and Mercedes has been known to struggle but eventually get it right. That leaves and opening fir Red Bull to possibly exploit.
 

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Discussion Starter #82 (Edited)
I never liked Alonso
I didn't either. Especially after that one season with McLaren and his threats during Spygate. I thought he was toxic.

Then McLaren/Honda came along and beat him up every. single. weekend, and he kept getting up. We watched the spirit of a WDC slowly break over those four years, and that added character, I think.

I like him now.

edit. I had forgotten about my internal struggle when he went to Ferrari. That was at the point when I had the lowest opinion of him. I've been a Ferrari fan for 30+ years, and I thought, "How can I cheer for the Scuderia if he's one of their drivers???"
 

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I didn't either. Especially after that one season with McLaren and his threats during Spygate. I thought he was toxic.

Then McLaren/Honda came along and beat him up every. single. weekend, and he kept getting up. We watched the spirit of a WDC slowly break over those four years, and that added character, I think.

I like him now.
I liked him during the Renault (first stint) and Ferrari days, but lost interest when he went to McLaren.

it was tough to see him struggle in the McLaren Honda and I definitely gained a lot of respect/became a fan after his first Indy 500. I wouldn't mind seeing him back, but ultimately I want fresh new talent in F1 more than old drivers coming back, so hopefully he finds continued success elsewhere.
 

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There's No Team In Alonso

For me, when Alonso went to McLaren it was just a continuation of what he's always been and done, a primadonna that's disruptive when times are tough.

Alonso only wants to come back to a top team but it's also telling that McLaren has made it clear they're happy with Norris and Sainz and wish Alonso well on his search :laugh:

Alonso is a champion, a true talent who can place a car higher than it deserves on track, what he's not is a teammate and someone who is going to help you progress. He'll blast you, the team, everybody.

There's no denying that Alonso was better than Vandoorne but Vandoorne told the story of how Alonso operated. The knock Vettel gets is that he doesn't like to be challenged from a teammate, it rattles him. Alonso is the same and Verstappen is looking to share that trait.

If Alonso wants to go to a top team, he poses challenges, not for his driving, but his personality. Red Bull will have difficult days and Alonso would have them on blast when they faltered. Horner and Marko already know all that so it won't happen, Ferrari know that too and probably cringe at the thought of Alonso in front of a microphone in red and Mercedes' phone is probably ringing nonstop and have the pick of the litter and don't need him.

I don't see where he fits. This may be the craziest silly season in decades, it would take some major moves and retirements to shake out something for Alonso. Can't see it today but as U posted, much can happen in a year.
 

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Can't stand Alonso. When he doesn't have Flavio kissing his backside, he can't function as a member of a team. He had his shot at championship number 3 and he threw it away, both at McLaren and at Ferrari. Unless he is on a pedestal like a golden statue, he can't keep his emotions and his mouth in check.
 

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Max Didn't Learn From Alonso

Speed and race craft are the most important traits by far for a driver to possess. It's a team sport and to get the most out of that package all members have to mesh and work to continuously improve.

Disruptive behavior is disruptive. I did give Verstappen a but if a pass for his age but he's old enough to have learned that it's a privilege to be in F1 and on a good team, it's not a given. Wonder how Ferrari feels about Alonso and Verstappen?:



Ferrari has slammed the door shut to Max Verstappen.

At the Maranello team’s end of season dinner, bosses Mattia Binotto and Louis Camilleri confirmed that Sebastian Vettel’s 2021 seat may be up for grabs.

But the talk was mainly about Lewis Hamilton, as Binotto swept away any lingering speculation that Fernando Alonso might return to a red cockpit.

“We have talked about him, but he no longer sits with our plans,” the team boss said.

As for Verstappen, Camilleri is still furious with the Dutchman after he accused Ferrari of “cheating” with its 2019 engine.

“These declarations generally don’t take you very far,” he said of the Red Bull-Honda driver who is not ruling out a change of teams for 2021.

“Max is 22 years old, so why give him credibility when we are Ferrari?” Camilleri added. “Sometimes silence is more powerful.”

https://grandpx.news/furious-ferrari-slams-door-on-verstappen/
 

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Can't stand Alonso. When he doesn't have Flavio kissing his backside, he can't function as a member of a team. He had his shot at championship number 3 and he threw it away, both at McLaren and at Ferrari. Unless he is on a pedestal like a golden statue, he can't keep his emotions and his mouth in check.
Me either. If Michael's engine didn't blow up while leading in Japan 2006...Alonso would be at 1 championship. Just watched those last 20 laps recently, it was Michael's first engine failure in 6 years. It was also Alonso's last win in a Renault.
I still remember the smoke coming out the back of the Ferrari like it was yesterday. Ugh!
 

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This is a very interesting take and one I hadn't thought about.

With new regulations it's going to come down to who can engineer the best car the fastest and Adrian Newey is the aero visionary of our time.

Ferrari can't find their azzes with the lights on and Mercedes has been known to struggle but eventually get it right. That leaves and opening fir Red Bull to possibly exploit.
For me it is more likely that Mercedes could follow Red Bull rather than Ferrari. The thing with Red Bull is that they also need a top driver. In my scenario Vettel could be lucky at the time.
As for Alonso... Alonso is great but only when he is the undisputable #1. He sets the car up to his likes (and he is great at that) but to me he seems more like a diva who can't decide what's good for him.
And to tell you the truth, I d love to see Sainz or Norris or Russel fight for a championship.

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Just Milking my Carrot in the Honda break room.
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The thing is that the only man who can take full advantage of the new 2021 aero regulations is in Red Bull. So in my opinion, that's the team to get championships then.
and then Honda quits.

I can say that without a shadow of a doubt that Honda will not be back after 2021. There are rumblings that Honda may pull the plug on every other professional racing proposition save for IndyCar.
 

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No, just auto-related. HRC has a completely different budget aside from anything auto related.
Interesting. So the ROI works for motorcycles, but not for cars? Or is the current state of staring a switch from ICE to EV what's making Honda want to sit on the sidelines until things are clearer with regards to racing and its impact on road cars?
 

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Just Milking my Carrot in the Honda break room.
Atlanta, GA ~ Honda, Ducati
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Interesting. So the ROI works for motorcycles, but not for cars? Or is the current state of staring a switch from ICE to EV what's making Honda want to sit on the sidelines until things are clearer with regards to racing and its impact on road cars?
Yes.
 

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Rumor Has Been Around

I have read rumors about Honda leaving F1 a week or so ago, it's on the judge (article below) but the articles were all kinda vague.

If you out "Honda pulls out of motorsports" in a search engine you'll get some hits from when Hinda did it in 2008. The similarity is that during that time Honda was bleeding money and F1 was going through rules changes. CEO of Honda, Takahiro Hachigo has been making news about cutting costs so it's playing into that theme. There are some other tid bits about how Honda isn't marketing F1 right too that rings true:


Renowned Formula 1 copywriter Dieter Rencken has very recently penned an article in Dutch for GPToday.net noticing that Honda is acting rather strangely in recent times. Not many other English speaking F1 news sites have picked up on this ‘op-ed’ by Rencken, but for TJ13, this report increases the likelihood that sooner rather than later Formula 1 will be set to change dramatically, akin to the end of 2008. Another year of dramatic rule changes which coincided with a mass manufacturer pull out.

The reality of the Honda situation is that they simply do not have a firm long term plan for their continued participation in Formula 1. And frankly, this has just been hugely re-enforced by the weak marketing and total lack of a collaborative message between Red Bull Racing, Toro Rosso (soon to be called Scuderia Alpha Tauri) and Honda themselves.

Cost is also hugely important, plus Honda does have a rich history of suddenly removing themselves from Formula 1, rather frequently over the decades.

https://www.f1supernews.com/2019/12...l-quits-manufacturers-question-participation/
 

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Just Milking my Carrot in the Honda break room.
Atlanta, GA ~ Honda, Ducati
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I have read rumors about Honda leaving F1 a week or so ago
I can only say from my experience, but my team's budget was slashed drastically for next fiscal year. I was told told that this is happening from the top-down with very few exceptions.
 

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Eyes On The Prize

I was curious about viewership of F1 and found that ESPN has seen an increase in viewership over last year. It's a worldwide viable platform, unfortunately it's also oh so expensive! F1 needs more engine suppliers, but so does IndyCar, the Honda/Chevy show needs more brands too. I'm sure Roger Penske is on it.

On F1 and ESPN:

The live telecast of the 2019 Mexican Grand Prix on ABC drew the largest U.S. television audience on record for the event since its return in 2015, another mark in the season-long trend of audience growth for the championship across ESPN networks.

The race had an average audience of 850,000 viewers on ABC, an increase of 11 percent over the race on ABC last year (769,000) and up three percent from the NBC audience of 826,000 in 2017. The Mexican Grand Prix audience peaked at 1,014,168 as Lewis Hamilton scored his 10th win of the 2019 season.

The audience for the Mexican Grand Prix was the third-largest of the season on ESPN networks, following the Canadian Grand Prix on ABC (1.1 million average viewers) and the Monaco Grand Prix on ESPN (908,000).

Through 18 races this season, Formula 1 is averaging 671,000 viewers on ESPN networks, an increase of 19 percent over the average of 561,000 at this point last year on ESPN networks and up 24 percent from the average of 542,000 on NBC networks in 2017.

All but three of the 18 races this season have seen year-over-year viewership increases on ESPN networks.


https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/10/31/espn-formula-1-viewership-continues-to-break-records/
 

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Gentlemen, a short view back to the past. Eleven years ago, Honda told us "thanks, but no thanks," and left F1 entirely.’ Eleven years later, Metalitubby told us ‘without a shadow of a doubt that Honda will not be back after 2021.’ And Burnette said in a thread – I don’t remember what thread - 'If you out Honda...you'll get some hits from.. Hinda,' Question for you both: is Formula One engine supplying today too complicated with twenty and more batteries, are you too much under effort, under pressure? What are your wishes for the future concerning the technical program during the off-season? Less Honda, more? Or less and more communication with your forum?
 
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