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BFI also claims that the Fluidampr helps to prolong the life of the crank bearings when running an SMF clutch kit. They wouldn't say it if it wasn't true. Maybe they picked that up from this thread?
Are you disregarding all the questions you have no answers for? You pick and choose little half truths and try to manipulate them to support your predetermined outcome.

What clutch do you have smart guy?




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BFI also claims that the Fluidampr helps to prolong the life of the crank bearings when running an SMF clutch kit. They wouldn't say it if it wasn't true. Maybe they picked that up from this thread?
Wow, you need to calm down a bit.

BFI speaks the truth. There's so dynos out there that prove it.
Here's a video that proves the Fluidampr works:
https://youtu.be/9wQJp09sW70
 

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Wow, you need to calm down a bit.

BFI speaks the truth. There's so dynos out there that prove it.
Here's a video that proves the Fluidampr works:
https://youtu.be/9wQJp09sW70
BFI site below


I’m with you. Everyone who has a fluidamper seems to love them. No knock there.

Universal Fear Monger’s assertion that BFI is claiming they counter act so called damage from a SMF is false though. Again he is drawing the predetermined conclusion he is desperate to prove, from a half truth. This claim is straight from Fluidamper not BFI. This claim would be true of a DMF or SMF. Fluidamper says it will improve bearing life, period. He linked this with a SMF because he wants to push his unsubstantiated claims.

The study he provided clearly states dampening of a flywheel makes little difference on vibration on the engine side. But he can’t respond to that.


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"P.S. It's very difficult to bypass the starter interlock switch on the clutch pedal in the MK7 without throwing error codes. One user has accomplished the feat by engineering a homemade solid magnet/electric piston device tied into the stock wiring. Increased risk of thrust bearing damage when running an SMF will be a factor unless clutchless starting can be implemented. - https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/clutchless-ignition-update-solved-maybe.371131/#post-7391943"

HaHa. Didn't know this had been picked up on over here... but I rarely view this forum. Anyway, that's me and my rig. After running it for 3 weeks it seems a success and can be done for under $100. It's just a super bitch to work in that tiny space to get it installed. If I get to the one month mark with no issues, I may do a full diy. The major parts needed are all listed in that thread on golfmk7
 

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BFI notes that using a Fluidampr will help prolong the life of the crank bearings when you switch from the DMF to a SMF.
Could you please provide where you got this from? The listing for Fluidamprs which are mainly copy and paste from their site talks about NVH.

Also, I'm still waiting for an answer on whether or not using a Sachs PP and Exedy disc in a clutch kit equates to manufacturing clutches in house.
 

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Is it needed to do the bleeder block mod, with an aftermarket clutch?
No but I suggest it. Good free improvement in clutch pedal feel.


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Is it needed to do the bleeder block mod, with an aftermarket clutch?
It's not a must. But it does improve clutch peddle feel and engagement. I feel that this thing is part of the reason the stock clutches fail so soon. They do exactly what their name implies. It delays clutch engagement. And if you drive anything more then normal, the clutch peddle releases far too slowly.
 

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Thought I'd add this bit here in case someone pops up with a similar question:

Talking to a rep at Competition Clutch

"Woah let me stop you there. Plate load is not at all felt by the thrust bearing. All 2200 lbs pushes the disc against the flywheel friction surface and does not put any of that pressure on the crank. The only pressure on the thrust bearing will be from the fingers of the pressure plate diaphragm pushing against the release bearing and in turn pushing a reduced amount against the thrust bearing via the pressure plate through the flywheel.

Plate load is a measurement of the load that is applied to the disc against the flywheel friction surface.
Diaphragm load is the force exerted by the fingers of the diaphragm against the release bearing.

Diaphragm load on the oem clutch is most likely around 380lb.
Diaphragm load on the MR kit can be from 700lb-900lb. ******WARNING*******Warning defined below.
Diaphragm load on the MS kit can be between 440-480lbs

****Warning definition:
Step 5. The increased pressure required to release the Twin Disc (MR kit) puts a significant amount of load on the crankshaft thrust bearings. Starting the engine with the clutch pedal depressed -when the bearings are cold and dry- will cause accelerated wear. To reduce the amount of wear on these bearings, you should consider bypassing the starter interlock switch on the clutch pedal and start the engine with the car in neutral and the clutch released. Use extreme caution when disabling the interlock switch as it is a safety device. Never disable any safety device on a street-legal car.
"
This is some great info.
Was the warning just for MR kits with the MS kits not causing any issue?
 

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More Confused

Each time I read through this thread it becomes more confusing. Is it just me?

My 2015 APR II since 20k now has 86K on the factory clutch! The clutch is still holding, but I'd like to install one now because I'm living on borrowed time. I think this thread helped me at least figure out that I'd like a duel mass to keep it as close to stock as possible.

Any straight forward suggestions will be very appreciated.

thx
 

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Each time I read through this thread it becomes more confusing. Is it just me?

My 2015 APR II since 20k now has 86K on the factory clutch! The clutch is still holding, but I'd like to install one now because I'm living on borrowed time. I think this thread helped me at least figure out that I'd like a duel mass to keep it as close to stock as possible.

Any straight forward suggestions will be very appreciated.

thx
If it's still not slipping don't worry until you start seeing slip.

It all depends on how you drive too! If you're constantly goosing it in 5th or 6th gear without downshifting, you will see slipping sooner than later.
 

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If it's still not slipping don't worry until you start seeing slip.

It all depends on how you drive too! If you're constantly goosing it in 5th or 6th gear without downshifting, you will see slipping sooner than later.
Thx.

Yes. Always downshifting before stepping on it.

OK. I'll wait. But, still have no idea what to get when its needed. Maybe by then it will become obvious.
 

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Clutch Manufacturer Locations:

ACT - manufactured IN-HOUSE in Lancaster, CA- "In-house manufacturing is critical in tuning components specifically to each individual application, while maintaining the predictable ACT pedal feel across the entire catalog."
Clutch Masters - manufactured IN-HOUSE in Rialto, CA- "An American Manufacturing company that takes pride in being able to say our parts are made in the USA"

Sachs/SRE - manufactured IN-HOUSE in Germany
South Bend - manufactured IN-HOUSE in Mishawaka, IN- "South Bend Clutch is a fourth generation family owned and operated business located in Mishawaka, Indiana (near South Bend, Indiana). All the manufacturing, rebuilding, and machining takes place at their facility, so all of their clutches are USA-built."
SPEC - manufactured IN-HOUSE in Bessemer, AL- "Our clutches and flywheels are manufactured on-site using the most advanced methods under the strictest tolerances. We wouldn't have it any other way"


Clutch Materials:

Organic -
Metal-fiber woven into "organic" (actually CF aramid with other materials), original-equipment style. Known for smooth engagement, long life, broad operating temperature, minimal-to-no break in period. Will take hard use, somewhat intolerant of repeated abuse (will overheat). Will return to almost full operational condition if overheated.
Kevlar - Engagement is similar to organic, but may glaze slightly in stop-and-go traffic, resulting in slippage. Higher temp range in general, but can be ruined from overheating - will not return to original characteristics if "cooked". Has a break-in period of 500-1000 miles during which slippage may occur.
Fibertuff - Fibertuff is a product designed to give the wear of a ceramic facing, yet have the engagement and disengagement qualities of an organic material.

Ceramic/Carbon Graphite/Cerometallic -
Very high temperature materials, usually only found on multi-puck disks. Engagement is more abrupt. Will wear flywheel surface faster, especially in traffic situations. Carbon is slightly more durable and flywheel-friendly, ceramic has a higher temp range. Multi-puck design may result in slight shuddering or "stepped" engagement when used in traffic situations.
Feramic - Feramic is essentially a heavy-duty version of ceramic clutch discs. Made of similar materials – steel, silicon, graphite, etc. – feramic has an extremely high amount of friction, so they’re best used for machines that require quick lock-up like racing

Recommended:

Stage 0-2 (will feel mostly like stock after break-in but hold more power than stock)

FCP TTRS - 430 ft/lbs (DMF) - organic - OEM parts - LIFETIME WARRANTY - no longer sold as a kit by FCP due to Golf R fitment problems and Sachs/SRE releasing their own kit (see below)

SRE Stage 1 - 407 ft/lbs (DMF) - organic - OEM parts - LIFETIME WARRANTY when purchased from FCPEuro

Helix - 420 ft/lbs (DMF) - organic
Helix 6 Puck - 480 ft/lbs (DMF) - cerometallic

HoD 6GT - 430 ft/lbs (DMF) - organic - OEM parts


Ringer Racing - 475 ft/lbs (DMF) - 1/2 organic and 1/2 cerometallic - made by Clutch Masters

RSR - 480 ft/lbs (DMF) - organic - OEM parts with OEM self-adjusting pressure plate (keeps the engagement point in the same spot as the clutch material wears thinner over time)
RSR Hybrid (DMF) - OEM self-adjusting pressure plate - 1/2 organic and 1/2 kevlar - https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index...ippage.341404/

RTS Dual Friction - 450 ft/lbs (DMF) - organic/kevlar
RTS 5 Puck - 530 ft/lbs (DMF)

South Bend Drop-in Disk - 400 ft/lbs - (DMF and stock pressure plate) - 1/2 organic and 1/2 feramic - mixed reports at holding high torque but safest option for the thrust bearing as it uses the stock pressure plate

SPEC Stage 1 - 310 ft/lbs (DMF) - organic
SPEC Stage 2 - 350 ft/lbs (DMF) - kevlar
SPEC Stage 2+ - 390 ft/lbs (DMF) - kevlar/carbon graphite
SPEC Stage 3 - 420 ft/lbs (DMF) - carbon graphite
SPEC Stage 3+ - 450 ft/lbs (DMF) - carbon graphite/feramic
SPEC Stage 4 - 420 ft/lbs (DMF) - carbon graphite

Clutch Masters FX100 - 350 ft/lbs (DMF) - organic
Clutch Masters FX250 - 390 ft/lbs (DMF) - organic/Fiber Tuff
Clutch Masters FX350 - 480 ft/lbs (DMF) - Fiber Tuff


Stage 2+ (will be grabbier than stock after break-in but hold even more power)

SRE 4-puck - 600 ft/lbs (DMF) - ceramic - OEM supplier

Ringer Racing - 590 ft/lbs (DMF) - full cerometallic - made by Clutch Masters

SPEC Stage 5 - 588 ft/lbs (DMF) - feramic



Because of the increased chance of thrust bearing failure/crank walk due to removal of the DMF (on most kits below) along with the increased clamping from uprated pressure plates, the following clutches should be used with caution - installing a Fluidampr may be a good idea for the thrust bearing even though it's made to dampen torsional vibrations:


ACT Streetlite - 340 ft/lbs (SMF) - organic
ACT Street - 500 ft/lbs (SMF) - organic
ACT Race 6 Puck - 640 ft/lbs (SMF) - ceramic

Bully Stage 1 - 300 ft/lbs (SMF) - organic
Bully Stage 2 - 380 ft/lbs (SMF) - organic/Kevlar
Bully Stage 3 - 420 ft/lbs (SMF) - Kevlar
Bully Stage 4 - 450 ft/lbs (SMF) - Kevlar

Clutch Masters FX100 - 350 ft/lbs (SMF) - organic
Clutch Masters FX250 - 390 ft/lbs (SMF) - organic/Fiber Tuff
Clutch Masters FX300 - 480 ft/lbs (SMF) - Kevlar
Clutch Masters FX350 - 480 ft/lbs (SMF) - Fiber Tuff
Clutch Masters FX400 - 500 ft/lbs (SMF) - Ceramic
Clutch Masters FX450 - 635 ft/lbs (SMF) - Feramic
Clutch Masters Super Single 850 - 800 ft/lbs (SMF)
Ringer Racing - 475 ft/lbs (SMF) - 1/2 organic and 1/2 cerometallic - made by Clutch MastersRinger Racing - 590 ft/lbs (SMF) - full cerometallic - made by Clutch Masters
South Bend Stage 2 Daily - 400 ft/lbs (SMF)
South Bend Stage 2 Endurance - 465 ft/lbs (SMF) - 1/2 organic and 1/2 feramic
South Bend Stage 2 Drag - 520 ft/lbs (SMF) - 6 puck ceramic
South Bend Stage 3 Daily - 500 ft/lbs (SMF) - organic -
https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index...0#post-7368427
South Bend Stage 3 Endurance - 580 ft/lbs (SMF) - kevlar
South Bend Stage 3 Drag - 600 ft/lbs (SMF) - 6 puck ceramic
South Bend Stage 4 - 600 ft/lbs (SMF) - 4 puck fermaic
South Bend Stage 4 Extreme - 675 ft/lbs (SMF) - 4 puck ceramic

SPEC Stage 1 - 430 ft/lbs (SMF) - organic
SPEC Stage 2 - 480 ft/lbs (SMF) - kevlar
SPEC Stage 2+ - 535 ft/lbs (SMF) - kevlar/carbon graphite
SPEC Stage 3 - 580 ft/lbs (SMF) - carbon graphite
SPEC Stage 3+ - 671 ft/lbs (SMF) - carbon graphite/feramic
SPEC Stage 4 - 580 ft/lbs (SMF) - carbon graphite
SPEC Stage 5 - 820 ft/lbs (SMF) - feramic
SPEC Twin Disk - Rally - 800ft/lbs (SMF)
SPEC Twin Disk - Carbon - 1100 ft/lbs (SMF)

SRE Stage 1 - 391 ft/lbs (SMF) - organic
SRE Stage 2 - 450 ft/lbs (SMF) - organic

DKM Stage 1 - 258 ft/lbs (SMF) - made by Competition Clutch in China
DKM Stage 2 - 440 ft/lbs (SMF) - made by Competition Clutch in China
- https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/another-failed-thrust-bearing-victim.371359/
DKM Twin Disk - 660 ft/lbs (SMF) - made by Competition Clutch in China - https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37662
DKM Stage 5 - 650 ft/lbs (SMF) - made by Competition Clutch in China - MR pressure plate!! (see below)

BFI Stage 1 - 290 ft/lbs (SMF) -https://www.reddit.com/r/GolfGTI/com...rible_mistake/ and https://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showp...&postcount=176
BFI Stage 2 - 400 ft/lbs (SMF) - using a 2500lb pressure plate (see below) - https://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showp...&postcount=162
BFI Stage 3 - 450 ft/lbs (SMF) - using a 2500lb pressure plate (see below) - BFI Stage 3 issues - GOLFMK7 - VW GTI MKVII Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVII Forum and https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...#post113778853
BFI Stage 4 - 500 ft/lbs (SMF) - using a 2500lb pressure plate (see below)
BFI Stage 5 - 550 ft/lbs (SMF) - using a 2500lb pressure plate (see below)

////WARNING from Competition Clutch\\\\
"The increased pressure required to release the Twin Disc (MR kit) puts a significant amount of load on the crankshaft thrust bearings. Starting the engine with the clutch pedal depressed -when the bearings are cold and dry- will cause accelerated wear. To reduce the amount of wear on these bearings, you should consider bypassing the starter interlock switch on the clutch pedal and start the engine with the car in neutral and the clutch released. Use extreme caution when disabling the interlock switch as it is a safety device. Never disable any safety device on a street-legal car."
Diaphragm load on the OEM clutch is most likely around 380lb
Diaphragm load on the MS kit can be between 440-480lbs
Diaphragm load on the MR kit can be from 700lb-900lb

P.S. It's very difficult to bypass the starter interlock switch on the clutch pedal in the MK7 without throwing error codes. One user has accomplished the feat by engineering a homemade solid magnet/electric piston device tied into the stock wiring. Increased risk of thrust bearing damage when running an SMF will be a factor unless clutchless starting can be implemented. -
https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...tion-update-solved-maybe.371131/#post-7391943

2/15/20 Edit - added BFI recommendation on Fluidampr to negate some of the negative effects of replacing the DMF with an SMF


Thx.

Yes. Always downshifting before stepping on it.

OK. I'll wait. But, still have no idea what to get when its needed. Maybe by then it will become obvious.
See the above post that I quoted... That's a bit of information overload.

Really comes down to your long term plans with your car. If you're going to stop at stage 2 there's lots of good options out there. Though to be honest I'd simply say a stage 3 clutch is the best longest lasting clutch out there.
 

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Ok so I took advantage of this quarantine day to read all the posts of this amazing and complete thread (been a long journey)

My setup is GSW 4MO with is20 swap +UM tune and obviously 6MT.
Since GTI and AT/GSW uses the same clutch I thought this thread would be my go to place.

So car has only 20k KM total still on stock clutch. last 10k km with is20. Loving is20 BTW. Really fun with 4MO and great tires.

Clutch began to slip last week. I don’t abuse it. No drag/lapping.
I’m torn between DMF setup (TTRS clutch (or RSR)) or SMF setup ( Bully /SB stage 2)


My trusted local tuning shop recommends and push me toward Bully stage 2 and swears chatter is very subtle and feeling is almost OEM. But I still doubt about it.
I don’t want loud chatter, don’t want clutch pedal feeling to be too hard (fiancée uses the car as well) and I want reliability.

Question for experts:
If I go RSR do you folks think original DMF will still be in great shape and reusable? If so, do you think I’ll be able to make a long run with that setup without reinvesting in clutch items. Those Oem DMF are like 800$can around here it’s crazy expensive.

I’m in for mid long term reviews from TTRS and RSR users.

Thanks folks
 

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Ok so I took advantage of this quarantine day to read all the posts of this amazing and complete thread (been a long journey)

My setup is GSW 4MO with is20 swap +UM tune and obviously 6MT.
Since GTI and AT/GSW uses the same clutch I thought this thread would be my go to place.

So car has only 20k KM total still on stock clutch. last 10k km with is20. Loving is20 BTW. Really fun with 4MO and great tires.

Clutch began to slip last week. I don’t abuse it. No drag/lapping.
I’m torn between DMF setup (TTRS clutch (or RSR)) or SMF setup ( Bully /SB stage 2)


My trusted local tuning shop recommends and push me toward Bully stage 2 and swears chatter is very subtle and feeling is almost OEM. But I still doubt about it.
I don’t want loud chatter, don’t want clutch pedal feeling to be too hard (fiancée uses the car as well) and I want reliability.

Question for experts:
If I go RSR do you folks think original DMF will still be in great shape and reusable? If so, do you think I’ll be able to make a long run with that setup without reinvesting in clutch items. Those Oem DMF are like 800$can around here it’s crazy expensive.

I’m in for mid long term reviews from TTRS and RSR users.

Thanks folks
I can’t speak to the long term DMF experience but i can say this. The pedal feel will be primarily dictated by the flywheel. My clutch uses an OEM style HD sachs pressure plate with a SMF. The pedal feel is really close to stock. Unlike the south bend flywheel i had for awhile.

An aggressive disc could make things less forgiving as well and a real pain around town. I would stay with a full faced disc for sure.

A SMF will make a little noise. No way around it. Some seem better than others. My Ringer Racing kit is much quieter than the South Bend was. It’s not bad and doesn’t bother me. I just listen to my exhaust :) If that is important to you don’t get a SMF.

I personally would recommend my Ringer Racing kit to anyone wanting a SMF setup (I have the stg4 kit but stg3 is probably more than enough. I went overboard but it’s still great daily). If I were to have gone with a DMF I would have probably got the RSR hybrid kit.

My OEM flywheel came out with 17k miles on it. It didn’t look too bad visually but there was some minor slop in the damper and a few hot spots. It would suck to have to pay to have to pay $1k or so extra in labor later and still have to buy a new flywheel. I don’t have any experience with them though. It would just scare me.

One thing you really have to do no mater what you choose is get an iabed rear main seal. Money in the bank right there.

Good luck. Sounds like a sweet wagon.


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Definitely a sweet wagon. To have around 300HP/310LB-FT available is very pleasant. But it needs a clutch now.

Thanks for the info. That Ringer Racing kit seems interesting but im in Canada so price is 1.5x US$ + shipping + brockerage... it will end at more than 2000$ just for the parts.
To only thing that separates me from the TTRS/RSR clutch is knowing how in good or bad shape is the actual DMF. I'm pretty sure its ok but I fear I get a call from the shop when they will remove the PP/disc: Dude, you need a new DMF.

I'm still in for reviews or RSR/TTRS users.



I can’t speak to the long term DMF experience but i can say this. The pedal feel will be primarily dictated by the flywheel. My clutch uses an OEM style HD sachs pressure plate with a SMF. The pedal feel is really close to stock. Unlike the south bend flywheel i had for awhile.

An aggressive disc could make things less forgiving as well and a real pain around town. I would stay with a full faced disc for sure.

A SMF will make a little noise. No way around it. Some seem better than others. My Ringer Racing kit is much quieter than the South Bend was. It’s not bad and doesn’t bother me. I just listen to my exhaust :) If that is important to you don’t get a SMF.

I personally would recommend my Ringer Racing kit to anyone wanting a SMF setup (I have the stg4 kit but stg3 is probably more than enough. I went overboard but it’s still great daily). If I were to have gone with a DMF I would have probably got the RSR hybrid kit.

My OEM flywheel came out with 17k miles on it. It didn’t look too bad visually but there was some minor slop in the damper and a few hot spots. It would suck to have to pay to have to pay $1k or so extra in labor later and still have to buy a new flywheel. I don’t have any experience with them though. It would just scare me.

One thing you really have to do no mater what you choose is get an iabed rear main seal. Money in the bank right there.

Good luck. Sounds like a sweet wagon.


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Definitely a sweet wagon. To have around 300HP/310LB-FT available is very pleasant. But it needs a clutch now.

Thanks for the info. That Ringer Racing kit seems interesting but im in Canada so price is 1.5x US$ + shipping + brockerage... it will end at more than 2000$ just for the parts.
To only thing that separates me from the TTRS/RSR clutch is knowing how in good or bad shape is the actual DMF. I'm pretty sure its ok but I fear I get a call from the shop when they will remove the PP/disc: Dude, you need a new DMF.

I'm still in for reviews or RSR/TTRS users.
Stock power Mk7.5 GSW 4Motion, replaced OEM clutch with TTRS right at 10k miles to break in prior to hybrid turbo upgrade. Longtime MT driver, the stock clutch wasn't slipping when replaced, kept original DMF. About 600 miles on it so far.

Pedal starts closer to the floor as widely reported and it's already closer to stock height with maybe 20% more pedal stiffness, which I like. No chatter, silent and smooth operation. I don't launch my car, but it feels like an OEM clutch. If it holds the power of the IS20 hybrid, I'll say 100% recommended if you want to keep your DMF.

Bought from FCP Euro for their lifetime warranty, it's the cheapest DMF option available if you piece it together on your own and should hold your IS20 GSW without a problem.
 

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TTRS

I would highly advise against the TTRS set up. Horrible noise, take-up chatter and just not a durable solution. DMF is always going to be a compromise. Just get the Sachs or SBC SMF Stage 2 or 3 depending upon your mods and preferences.
 

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¸
Thanks for the input Peterman. Much appreciated.
MY DMF should be fine I guess since it has with only 20k Km (so thats around 13K miles). Stock setup has slip maybe 3 times total so I go gentle since those episodes, to give DMF a real chance.
Silent, smooth and 20% stiffer are words in line with reviews and comments I had so far on TTRS (or RSR).
As I'm not in US, FCP Euro isn't a great option. I can piece it together from local shop for about 900$ canadian (that's about 600$ in today's US$). That includes TTRS clutch (PP + disc), a 240mm Sachs disc for MK7, and the throw out bearing.

I also read great things about the Sachs performance clutch kit (SRE). Compatible with stock DMF. https://www.emdauto.com/collections...neering-volkswagen-mk7-gti-stage-1-clutch-kit

Stock power Mk7.5 GSW 4Motion, replaced OEM clutch with TTRS right at 10k miles to break in prior to hybrid turbo upgrade. Longtime MT driver, the stock clutch wasn't slipping when replaced, kept original DMF. About 600 miles on it so far.

Pedal starts closer to the floor as widely reported and it's already closer to stock height with maybe 20% more pedal stiffness, which I like. No chatter, silent and smooth operation. I don't launch my car, but it feels like an OEM clutch. If it holds the power of the IS20 hybrid, I'll say 100% recommended if you want to keep your DMF.

Bought from FCP Euro for their lifetime warranty, it's the cheapest DMF option available if you piece it together on your own and should hold your IS20 GSW without a problem.
 

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What kind of noise and when? Between gears or in 1st, from stop towards acceleration?

In fact I heard more often from TTRS/RSR clutch users that it was silent with DMF.
is20 suits me perfectly and I don't think big turbo will happen to this car.

I would highly advise against the TTRS set up. Horrible noise, take-up chatter and just not a durable solution. DMF is always going to be a compromise. Just get the Sachs or SBC SMF Stage 2 or 3 depending upon your mods and preferences.
 
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