Lolz. Real men also listen to records, hand-write letters, and hang clothes outside on a line. Oh, they also read physical books and have rotary phones.
I have news: more effort for less performance is not the future. I've owned MT all my life but I'm quite willing to accept it's on the way out. It's dying. Move along.
Wow spoonie, you have more patience than most mods. Not sure I'd do the same, but kudos.:thumbup: I will stay on the sidelines watching with my opcorn:
I prefer a manual. Always have, always will. If others prefer DSG, that's great. Buy it. You can argue one is better than the other in whatever circumstances you want to construct, but what really matters is we have a choice. Everybody can have what they prefer and should respect those who made the other choice.
I'm there with you. There are times I just want to put it in D and turn up the music. This DSG is an experiment. I'm not cutting off an arm or anything, this is reversible. If I'm bored in a few years I'll trade the R on something faster and polish my knob again.
At the end of the the day, the DSG, CVT, Tiptronic, 100 speed automatics, are all just AUTOMATIC. And no, manual is not dying out, it's those who choose to give in to DSG and automatics that are killing it off in this country, but the take rate in Europe and the rest of the world is 75% or more. By buying automatics we are telling the manufactures, "yes, I want automatic, don't bring in manuals even as an option. I want a car to take me point A to point B with the least amount of driver interaction." This is what's causing all the millennials to be numb, and horrible drivers that prefer to be on social media. horrible, I will not contribute to the automatic pandemic hitting this country. #manualforlife
1) Be happy as this is the first generation of R's we get to choose the tranny. (#'s of doors is for a different thread)
2) I believe there are several people who have traded in their manual for a dsg and perhaps a few going the other way. Would love to hear more of their feedback in this thread.
3) With such short gearing of all R's, once more power is added gear changes come so quick. I'd hate to have my left quad and right arm that much more defined than their counterparts.
3) NA engines are great with 3 pedals. turbo engines match very well with DSG.
4) My old '04 R32 was great fun in a manual. This R is great fun with a dsg. I like to have fun.
5) Interested to see the sales or production data of '16s to show the breakout.
6) DSG FRTS (hopefully my next license plate)
7) Snarkers gonna snark
Both my MKVI GTIs were 6MT and so was my MKVII. I now drive a 2018 R with DSG and I can’t stand it. I hate how D shifts too soon, I hate how S keeps the rpms at 3000 for what seems like a ridiculous amount of time before it up shifts, and S manual shifts down for you even when you have no desire to downshift. Like when coming to a rolling stop but not completely stopping. In such a case you would simply keep the 6MT in 2nd gear but the DSG downshifts into 1st making for a less then comfortable roll through. Always wished I’d gotten the DSG every time I got the 6MT. In my case, careful what you wish for applies. Only 4 months to go before I can trade it in on a 6MT. The DSG has its place, it’s place is simply not in my hands. I found my 6MT Autobahn more fun to drive by a long shot.
I really enjoy the perspectives of those with the means and dedication enough to own both the DSG and manual. Them and anyone who has had significant time between the wheel of each.
I believe it's exactly the same as the GTI besides the fake carbon fiber shifter knob. It goes from meh to pretty awesome with a couple hundred bucks in mods, in my recent experience:
-ECS Bleeder Block ($105) or mod OEM clutch bleeder for free
-Metal Shifter Cable Bushings ($40-50)
-BFI shifter knob ($150) - lowers knob which effectively shortens throw
Other people go further with:
-Short Shifter replacement ($50-$250)
-Bracket replacement ($60-$150)
-Bracklet bushings ($30)
My DCT was terrible in the 335is, BMWs six speed is epic.
However, Volkswagens half assed 6-speed in the R with its lifeless feel, vague and sloppy action was a real disappointment. DSG was a revelation in the R, so I got the DSG. Was as surprised as anyone else...
Cause it's simply better in this application. Was really hard for me to arrive at this conclusion but for me driving is all about involvement, fun, feel, and handling, but despite my life long "F-Automatics" and being tortured with BMWs Dual Clutch POS, after driving the manual R back to back with the DSG, there wasn't any hesitation. I'm not so foolish as to pass up a better thing when it's presented.
Basically if you're a champion of the Manual in the Golf R.... You're either a Luddite, or simply a slave to stories told of imagined "skill" and Involvement in the drive, realities be damned.
Now THAT is some proper trash talk... :laugh:
In reality I like fun cars, manual almost exclusively, but DSG in this case. EVERY other vehicle I was shopping for this year was a manual and for lots of good reasons.
My DCT was terrible in the 335is, BMWs six speed is epic.
However, Volkswagens half assed 6-speed in the R with its lifeless feel, vague and sloppy action was a real disappointment. DSG was a revelation in the R, so I got the DSG. Was as surprised as anyone else...
Cause it's simply better in this application. Was really hard for me to arrive at this conclusion but for me driving is all about involvement, fun, feel, and handling, but despite my life long "F-Automatics" and being tortured with BMWs Dual Clutch POS, after driving the manual R back to back with the DSG, there wasn't any hesitation. I'm not so foolish as to pass up a better thing when it's presented.
Basically if you're a champion of the Manual in the Golf R.... You're either a Luddite, or simply a slave to stories told of imagined "skill" and Involvement in the drive, realities be damned.
Now THAT is some proper trash talk... :laugh:
In reality I like fun cars, manual almost exclusively, but DSG in this case. EVERY other vehicle I was shopping for this year was a manual and for lots of good reasons.
Actually no, at this point because we are essentially discussing preference it may as well be a religious debate because we are talking about beliefs... Also SPOONIE was kind enough to create this horrible sandbox to contain the silliness, so it would be a shame to NOT try and fill it up.
As someone who has and does live and breath manual transmissions, I struggle with WHY the DSG is so much better in the R, it just is... opcorn:
I test drove a GTI with DSG and struggled, especially when coming to a stop, my left foot went searching for a pedal and right foot was confused. I also felt like the car wanted to stall every time I was stopping. Sometime after the test drive I asked dealer if I could spend more time with a DSG, no problem, so we drove around for quite a bit. I tried manual mode, tried paddles, it was all very interesting but still could not get feet to co operate. I know over a a very short time all that would go away but it reminded me that as an old dog, new tricks are no big deal.
As a further auto v stick thing, my wife too has been a manual driver for years and recently stepped into a V60. Just keep the feel and stay in touch she takes the Golf once week.
FWIW I just went through this debate being a die hard manual guy as I was shopping. There were more 6 speed manual cars around than DSGs!
The only automatic cars I've ever owned (automatic ie DCT or Auto) were the E46 M3 and F10 M5.
I still have two other manual car in my garage so felt the ideal rationale for this car with my wife was having one "practical commuting car". OK so that's how I sold it to the wife.
To myself, here's how I sold it:
-The DSG is smoother and acts more like an automatic around town, and feels far smoother than my 13 M5 did. At WOT it's PDK quick, and still very enjoyable on back roads in paddle mode.
-With the DCT, the car's performance is elevated and really brings it to a different class of cars. According to Motortrend, the GOLF R does 13.1 sec @ 104.9 mph vs the BMW 340i's 13.6 sec @ 105.3 mph. Half a second ET is pretty big, despite the slightly slower trap which just shows the rather large HP delta of 50 or so.
-With just about any real tune and some serious driving, the stock clutch on the 6 speed will start to slip. Many will chime in and say theirs doesn't but there's plenty of evidence that it's the case with more serious use.
-The wolf in sheep's clothing effect. I probably wont go much further than basic boltons. This car with a tune, DP, intake and some e30 mix is max wolf mode for me and enough to keep most cars at bay.:laugh: Granted the manual will as well, but that difference means quite a bit regardless.
-Lastly it's faster than the Ford Focus RS I was also considering. hehe:thumbup:
To date these have been the only responses from the manual crowd:
- DSG is smoother... -> LEARN TO DRIVE or DON'T MATTER, 3 PEDALS OR NO FUN WILL BE HAD
- DCT == performance -> DON'T MATTER, 3 PEDALS OR NO FUN WILL BE HAD
- Clutch slipping with tune... -> LEARN TO DRIVE or THEN GET A BETTER CLUTCH
- Wolf is sheep's clothing... -> MORE FUN IN A MANUAL, JUS' SAYIN'
- Faster than bla bla bla... -> DON'T MATTER, 3 PEDALS OR NO FUN WILL BE HAD
Basically, anybody who bought a DSG obviously hates driving and isn't a real enthusiast.
*adds more E85 to the flame war*
Oh also, daily shot for this sticky being up *shot* :beer:
So... very tempted to trade in my DSG 15 GTI S for a 16 6spd SE PP GTI... OR just go R.
In most ways, I don't like the dsg in my gti, the car has immensely more personality with the manual. Way more fun to drive, IMO. Stepping up to spend the kinda money I would on an R, I can't believe I'm actually questioning, do I want a manual car as my only car. By the way, is the R manual really sloppy? Maybe I'm crazy but my short couple drives of a manual gti - I really really liked the gearbox.
Its funny, the longer I've held onto my gti, the more I do wonder, has dsg cursed me into enjoying the lazyness of it - its actually very very convenient. Here is my question for any of you R owners, especially if you drove a mk7 gti also - I"m hypothesizing that the DSG is a better match for an awd R than a fwd GTI. One downside of the gti in my opinion is the lack of control when the tires spin and what not... In the R, its just ridiculous smooth acceleration with no interruption.
Thoughts?
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