Wow spoonie, you have more patience than most mods. Not sure I'd do the same, but kudos.:thumbup: I will stay on the sidelines watching with my opcorn:
I prefer a manual. Always have, always will. If others prefer DSG, that's great. Buy it. You can argue one is better than the other in whatever circumstances you want to construct, but what really matters is we have a choice. Everybody can have what they prefer and should respect those who made the other choice.
Lolz. Real men also listen to records, hand-write letters, and hang clothes outside on a line. Oh, they also read physical books and have rotary phones.
I have news: more effort for less performance is not the future. I've owned MT all my life but I'm quite willing to accept it's on the way out. It's dying. Move along.
I really enjoy the perspectives of those with the means and dedication enough to own both the DSG and manual. Them and anyone who has had significant time between the wheel of each.
I'm there with you. There are times I just want to put it in D and turn up the music. This DSG is an experiment. I'm not cutting off an arm or anything, this is reversible. If I'm bored in a few years I'll trade the R on something faster and polish my knob again.
I believe it's exactly the same as the GTI besides the fake carbon fiber shifter knob. It goes from meh to pretty awesome with a couple hundred bucks in mods, in my recent experience:
-ECS Bleeder Block ($105) or mod OEM clutch bleeder for free
-Metal Shifter Cable Bushings ($40-50)
-BFI shifter knob ($150) - lowers knob which effectively shortens throw
Other people go further with:
-Short Shifter replacement ($50-$250)
-Bracket replacement ($60-$150)
-Bracklet bushings ($30)
My DCT was terrible in the 335is, BMWs six speed is epic.
However, Volkswagens half assed 6-speed in the R with its lifeless feel, vague and sloppy action was a real disappointment. DSG was a revelation in the R, so I got the DSG. Was as surprised as anyone else...
Cause it's simply better in this application. Was really hard for me to arrive at this conclusion but for me driving is all about involvement, fun, feel, and handling, but despite my life long "F-Automatics" and being tortured with BMWs Dual Clutch POS, after driving the manual R back to back with the DSG, there wasn't any hesitation. I'm not so foolish as to pass up a better thing when it's presented.
Basically if you're a champion of the Manual in the Golf R.... You're either a Luddite, or simply a slave to stories told of imagined "skill" and Involvement in the drive, realities be damned.
Now THAT is some proper trash talk... :laugh:
In reality I like fun cars, manual almost exclusively, but DSG in this case. EVERY other vehicle I was shopping for this year was a manual and for lots of good reasons.
My DCT was terrible in the 335is, BMWs six speed is epic.
However, Volkswagens half assed 6-speed in the R with its lifeless feel, vague and sloppy action was a real disappointment. DSG was a revelation in the R, so I got the DSG. Was as surprised as anyone else...
Cause it's simply better in this application. Was really hard for me to arrive at this conclusion but for me driving is all about involvement, fun, feel, and handling, but despite my life long "F-Automatics" and being tortured with BMWs Dual Clutch POS, after driving the manual R back to back with the DSG, there wasn't any hesitation. I'm not so foolish as to pass up a better thing when it's presented.
Basically if you're a champion of the Manual in the Golf R.... You're either a Luddite, or simply a slave to stories told of imagined "skill" and Involvement in the drive, realities be damned.
Now THAT is some proper trash talk... :laugh:
In reality I like fun cars, manual almost exclusively, but DSG in this case. EVERY other vehicle I was shopping for this year was a manual and for lots of good reasons.
Actually no, at this point because we are essentially discussing preference it may as well be a religious debate because we are talking about beliefs... Also SPOONIE was kind enough to create this horrible sandbox to contain the silliness, so it would be a shame to NOT try and fill it up.
As someone who has and does live and breath manual transmissions, I struggle with WHY the DSG is so much better in the R, it just is... opcorn:
I test drove a GTI with DSG and struggled, especially when coming to a stop, my left foot went searching for a pedal and right foot was confused. I also felt like the car wanted to stall every time I was stopping. Sometime after the test drive I asked dealer if I could spend more time with a DSG, no problem, so we drove around for quite a bit. I tried manual mode, tried paddles, it was all very interesting but still could not get feet to co operate. I know over a a very short time all that would go away but it reminded me that as an old dog, new tricks are no big deal.
As a further auto v stick thing, my wife too has been a manual driver for years and recently stepped into a V60. Just keep the feel and stay in touch she takes the Golf once week.
At the end of the the day, the DSG, CVT, Tiptronic, 100 speed automatics, are all just AUTOMATIC. And no, manual is not dying out, it's those who choose to give in to DSG and automatics that are killing it off in this country, but the take rate in Europe and the rest of the world is 75% or more. By buying automatics we are telling the manufactures, "yes, I want automatic, don't bring in manuals even as an option. I want a car to take me point A to point B with the least amount of driver interaction." This is what's causing all the millennials to be numb, and horrible drivers that prefer to be on social media. horrible, I will not contribute to the automatic pandemic hitting this country. #manualforlife
FWIW I just went through this debate being a die hard manual guy as I was shopping. There were more 6 speed manual cars around than DSGs!
The only automatic cars I've ever owned (automatic ie DCT or Auto) were the E46 M3 and F10 M5.
I still have two other manual car in my garage so felt the ideal rationale for this car with my wife was having one "practical commuting car". OK so that's how I sold it to the wife.
To myself, here's how I sold it:
-The DSG is smoother and acts more like an automatic around town, and feels far smoother than my 13 M5 did. At WOT it's PDK quick, and still very enjoyable on back roads in paddle mode.
-With the DCT, the car's performance is elevated and really brings it to a different class of cars. According to Motortrend, the GOLF R does 13.1 sec @ 104.9 mph vs the BMW 340i's 13.6 sec @ 105.3 mph. Half a second ET is pretty big, despite the slightly slower trap which just shows the rather large HP delta of 50 or so.
-With just about any real tune and some serious driving, the stock clutch on the 6 speed will start to slip. Many will chime in and say theirs doesn't but there's plenty of evidence that it's the case with more serious use.
-The wolf in sheep's clothing effect. I probably wont go much further than basic boltons. This car with a tune, DP, intake and some e30 mix is max wolf mode for me and enough to keep most cars at bay.:laugh: Granted the manual will as well, but that difference means quite a bit regardless.
-Lastly it's faster than the Ford Focus RS I was also considering. hehe:thumbup:
To date these have been the only responses from the manual crowd:
- DSG is smoother... -> LEARN TO DRIVE or DON'T MATTER, 3 PEDALS OR NO FUN WILL BE HAD
- DCT == performance -> DON'T MATTER, 3 PEDALS OR NO FUN WILL BE HAD
- Clutch slipping with tune... -> LEARN TO DRIVE or THEN GET A BETTER CLUTCH
- Wolf is sheep's clothing... -> MORE FUN IN A MANUAL, JUS' SAYIN'
- Faster than bla bla bla... -> DON'T MATTER, 3 PEDALS OR NO FUN WILL BE HAD
Basically, anybody who bought a DSG obviously hates driving and isn't a real enthusiast.
*adds more E85 to the flame war*
Oh also, daily shot for this sticky being up *shot* :beer:
So... very tempted to trade in my DSG 15 GTI S for a 16 6spd SE PP GTI... OR just go R.
In most ways, I don't like the dsg in my gti, the car has immensely more personality with the manual. Way more fun to drive, IMO. Stepping up to spend the kinda money I would on an R, I can't believe I'm actually questioning, do I want a manual car as my only car. By the way, is the R manual really sloppy? Maybe I'm crazy but my short couple drives of a manual gti - I really really liked the gearbox.
Its funny, the longer I've held onto my gti, the more I do wonder, has dsg cursed me into enjoying the lazyness of it - its actually very very convenient. Here is my question for any of you R owners, especially if you drove a mk7 gti also - I"m hypothesizing that the DSG is a better match for an awd R than a fwd GTI. One downside of the gti in my opinion is the lack of control when the tires spin and what not... In the R, its just ridiculous smooth acceleration with no interruption.
Traded my TC-SST in for another 6 speed because I hate driving automatic. Don't care about the slower 0-60 since I don't race on the street, don't care about quicker track times since I don't drive on the track, all I care about is my fun from A->B and that's all manual for me. That's why every car I drive is manual in my fleet. Don't like, don't agree? Don't care eace:.
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