[VQVW]

Don't blame VW. America is doing it wrong. For those of us who love wagons, it's so sad that there are almost none available anymore, and this video explains the real reasons why.

Whatever your views, it's pretty entertaining (if you are super pro-SUV/truck then you'll be entertained by your own rage, haha). Some jokes and lots of collision footage (probably mostly scripted/Hollywood crash reels).

It's really an excellent summary. His thesis is that "SUVs and light trucks are oversized, impractical vehicles which were heavily marketed to impressionable people because they make more money for automakers by skirting regulations." Chief among the regulations are the CAFE fuel standards, which have looser regulations for "light trucks" than for "passenger vehicles."

 

[mittencuh]

Once you add 10,000 lbs EV trucks and SUVs into the equation, it’ll get even worse. Before my Golf my daily driver was a 1994 E320, I shudder to think what the result of a collision between that and a Hummer EV, for example, would be.

 

[VWSixSpeed]

"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." - Ronald Reagan

Getting hit by a vehicle with larger mass than you (minivan, tank, EV, SUV, 18 wheeler) sucks. Seeing how the Government is going to "fix" the problem sucks more.

 

[fat biker]

Practically speaking, wagons are not dying. They died quite some time ago. My wife and I are big wagon fans. SUV's, the modern station wagon replacement. No thanks.

Good friends had a Subaru Legacy wagon. Just about a perfect size. Subaru killed it in favor of "tall wagons" (SUV like)

grrrrr

 

[drdave39]

Practically speaking, wagons are not dying. They died quite some time ago. My wife and I are big wagon fans. SUV's, the modern station wagon replacement. No thanks.

Good friends had a Subaru Legacy wagon. Just about a perfect size. Subaru killed it in favor of "tall wagons" (SUV like)

grrrrr

My 2005 Legacy GT Wagon, 5 speed manual. 300 HP with tune. Simply did everything well- fast, handled great, awesome in snow and ice, carried a ton. Finally re-homed it to a 27-year old who will love it and drive it for another 10 years. Still running my 2009 Audi A6 Avant and the daily is a 2018 GSW S. SUVs are for overweight losers who think they're cowboys.....

 

[Dieseldog12]

I was witness to an older gentleman stopped at a challenging stop sign in town with a crosswalk (kinda a 5 way intersection that should have a stop light) in a 1/2 ton chevy. He was looking for an opening to his left as he was turning that way, an old short lady started crossing to his right, he never saw much of her her over his hood and thankfully slowly started to roll into the intersection (everyone around started honking) and just nudged her down to the ground. I was shocked, thinking he had to see her, no way could he start, and sure enough he just rolled right into her. Could have been so much worse.

 

[Premise]

Once you add 10,000 lbs EV trucks and SUVs into the equation, it’ll get even worse. Before my Golf my daily driver was a 1994 E320, I shudder to think what the result of a collision between that and a Hummer EV, for example, would be.

The Hummer EV is the only one I know of that is that heavy. I think the Rivian gets close. The problem is trucks in general. I had a 2017 F150 and the more I drove it, the more I wondered why I had an F150. It was an excellent tool when I needed the space and the occasional heavy stuff moved. Then I changed jobs, couldn't take trips with the dogs and didn't haul anything for like two years. Finally got another vacation and now with 2 large dogs and a family of four, that wasn't enough and we took two vehicles. My thought was if that kind of trip took two vehicles, I had no reason to have a truck. It's the only vehicle I've traded and didn't look back.

I don't see a problem with EVs, I even own one, but I do see a problem with unnecessarily oversized, heavy vehicles no matter what they're powered by. I know there are many that use their trucks for truck things and that's awesome, the right tool for the job. There's just no way that every truck on the road I see has even been off of a paved path or used the bed for more than a grocery run.

 

[mittencuh]

I don't see a problem with EVs, I even own one, but I do see a problem with unnecessarily oversized, heavy vehicles no matter what they're powered by. I know there are many that use their trucks for truck things and that's awesome, the right tool for the job. There's just no way that every truck on the road I see has even been off of a paved path or used the bed for more than a grocery run.

No, I agree. I just meant that all the pre-existing trucks and SUVs and then add these even heavier EV trucks to the mix, is not good.

I live in a very bland suburban neighborhood and on my side of the street every house except mine and my immediate neighbor has a truck. 3x Sierra Denali in a row, Raptor, F-250, and a Canyon. Never have seen any being used for truck things.

 

[ORE_PDX]

Interesting vid… guy makes some well laid-out hypothesis. And a few underlying sneaky practices from big auto.

Subaru seams to be crushing it still, so there is a market. Just a more vanilla, boring, and terrible styled direction that makes me sad inside for its trajectory.

 

[VQVW]

The Hummer EV is the only one I know of that is that heavy. I think the Rivian gets close. The problem is trucks in general. I had a 2017 F150 and the more I drove it, the more I wondered why I had an F150. It was an excellent tool when I needed the space and the occasional heavy stuff moved. Then I changed jobs, couldn't take trips with the dogs and didn't haul anything for like two years. Finally got another vacation and now with 2 large dogs and a family of four, that wasn't enough and we took two vehicles. My thought was if that kind of trip took two vehicles, I had no reason to have a truck. It's the only vehicle I've traded and didn't look back.

I don't see a problem with EVs, I even own one, but I do see a problem with unnecessarily oversized, heavy vehicles no matter what they're powered by. I know there are many that use their trucks for truck things and that's awesome, the right tool for the job. There's just no way that every truck on the road I see has even been off of a paved path or used the bed for more than a grocery run.

Yeah, let's be clear: EVs are a very good thing. However, they are not a solution to problems with cars, traffic, road deaths, etc. EVs currently are significantly heavier and that is a problem; as battery technology improves hopefully they will get lighter.

I've heard people refer to EVs as "guilt-free", which is way off. They still pollute and contribute to carbon in their production; mining lithium and cobalt to produce the batteries is an environmental disaster; the electricity to charge them has environmental issues of its own (though definitely better than internal combustion engines); chemicals released from tires kills fish; EVs contribute to traffic and reinforce low-density sprawl and car-centric rather than people-centric communities. But yes, EVs are a big step in the right direction.

 

[VQVW]

Also, there is a long TCL thread about the video, including a lot of photos of ridiculous lifted trucks.

Stupid Trucks are Literally Killing Us

Just stirring the pot.....

www.vwvortex.com

 

[VWSixSpeed]

This is what I don't get... you may not like the choices someone makes, but it's their choice. I don't think we want to go down the road of taking anything about someone's life we don't like or disagree with and then trying to invent a reason why they shouldn't do that because somehow it affects someone else.

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.” - Robert Heinlein

Also, there is a long TCL thread about the video, including a lot of photos of ridiculous lifted trucks.

Stupid Trucks are Literally Killing Us

Just stirring the pot.....

www.vwvortex.com

 

[drdave39]

This is what I don't get... you may not like the choices someone makes, but it's their choice. I don't think we want to go down the road of taking anything about someone's life we don't like or disagree with and then trying to invent a reason why they shouldn't do that because somehow it affects someone else.

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.” - Robert Heinlein

I'm a huge Heinlein fan. But remember this quote is in the context of his characters always being able to emigrate away from idiots....

Dave

 

[VWSixSpeed]

I'm a huge Heinlein fan. But remember this quote is in the context of his characters always being able to emigrate away from idiots....

Dave

He was a smart guy, and I think the quote stands on its own.

 

[VQVW]

This is what I don't get... you may not like the choices someone makes, but it's their choice. I don't think we want to go down the road of taking anything about someone's life we don't like or disagree with and then trying to invent a reason why they shouldn't do that because somehow it affects someone else.

We don't need to invent reasons. The video provides about a dozen reasons why someone's choice to buy a very large truck affects others negatively, and I can think of a dozen more.

Some limitation of freedom is necessary for a well-functioning society. We all understand that, even though we might draw the lines differently. But your comment is implying that everybody can do whatever they want, no exceptions. I just don't see that as a reasonable argument.

 

[VWSixSpeed]

Good luck telling people what to drive.

We don't need to invent reasons. The video provides about a dozen reasons why someone's choice to buy a very large truck affects others negatively, and I can think of a dozen more.

Some limitation of freedom is necessary for a well-functioning society. We all understand that, even though we might draw the lines differently. But your comment is implying that everybody can do whatever they want, no exceptions. I just don't see that as a reasonable argument.

 

[Run Forrest]

An excellent video with many salient points.
I loved seeing him tout the benefits of wagons.
The whole light truck exemption is troubling, especially when most people today use these for family vehicles. I remember hearing about how the Subaru Outback got redesigned to be longer, taller and heavier in order to fit into a larger weight class where it would be able to take advantage of certain regulations including fuel economy. If you look at some of the original Outbacks they're much smaller, "car-based" cars.

One point I find interesting that the video didn't mention is the simple factor of all-wheel drive. I live in Maine and I think many folks buy SUVs and crossovers because of this feature. If carmakers (like VW) had offered this earlier it would have helped.

Another point that struck me is there was no mention of the Chevrolet Suburban. I think I've seen articles claiming that that was the first SUV. The first model came out in the 1930s. Interesting that the video cited models like the Jeep Wagoneer, which didn't debut till the 1960s.

Comparing America to Europe is always interesting. I never really gave it a lot of thought until a decade or so ago, but we are vastly different cultures. I think a lot of it comes back to WW II. Europe was devastated and needed rebuilding. Things like universal health care came following this as a way to get the region back on track. America provided the security the region needed to rebuild.

The USA suffered none of that. The factories were cranking and capitalism really took off. Europe practices capitalism too, but the devastation of the war meant heavy taxation was necessary for the common good to recover. Our landscapes are another factor. Europe is obviously much older and its cities and streets were designed before the automobile, much less the hulking SUVs that are available today. American suburbs grew up with a much more car-centric design. In the 50s and 60s, many of our older cities had large swaths bulldozed for interstate highways and other kinds of urban renewal. America favored modernization.

America is geared towards the individual, Europe to tradition and the common good. It's just apples and oranges in many respects and likely always will be.

 

[Bryan_Mills_2021]

I've been saying for years that we need to tax the sh!t out of trucks and SUVs in the U.S.

 

[Ridjobradi]

I've spend more time in Europe than in the States. There are not many wagons here either. You see more than in the States, but they are still a minority. I may seen two Golf R wagons during the 7 months in Germany.

Too many people wanting to force others to like them, because they don't like what the other person likes. I have trucks and small cars. I enjoy both for different reasons. I don't need my F150 for most things. I don't always want to use the GTi either. If we start limiting others because we don't like it, we won't have any many choices available to us. They are already trying to limit things like exhausts and ride height to factory only.

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Run Forrest]

I've been saying for years that we need to tax the sh!t out of trucks and SUVs in the U.S.

Agree
But it would have to be done in such a way that Joe Contractor doesn't get killed for his construction crew vehicles that builds our homes / remodeling / tree work that we all need from time to time.