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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Long story...
I picked up an 89 Jetta Gl 1.8L/5sp a week ago Friday. It had a slight coolant leak(from the pump *weep hole*)that gradually got worse over the last week(about 700mi). So, I finally got around to changing the water pump last night...I don't have an A2 Bently, but I figured w/my A1 & Corrado Bently I should be able to figure it out OK.
Well, the A1 book made it sound like taking the pump into 2-pieces was the easy method, so I was trying to take the lower timing-belt cover off to get to the pump bolts located behind. I mistakenly thought that the crank bolt had be removed to get the pulley off. I was trying to turn the bolt while holding the cam sprocket w/another wrench. I though the bolt was turning, but soon realized I'd slipped the belt off 1-tooth. I turned the belt the opposite way & popped it back to where(I thought)it was.
Well, I reaziled the way to get the pump off was to remove the alternator & A/C compressor(and bracket),take the entire pump assembly off & then separate.
So I finished last night around 10:30 & took it for a quick drive. It started a little rough, & ran OK, but seemed to *ping* under hard acceleration. I tried driving it today & it barely started(the 3-times I drove it). I went about 70mi round-trip, and used over 1/4 tank of gas. This plus the pinging & hard start convinced me that the timing was off, so I came home & tried to jump it back another tooth.
Needless to say, the quick-&-dirty method didn't work, and I ended up w/5-ribs sheared off the belt(oh well, it needed replacing anyway). I got the new belt & installed it, and set the timing, per the 2 Bently manuals(which were the same). I matched the notch on the crank pully w/the dot on the int. shaft pulley & then lined up the cam mark w/the mark on the cover.
When I try to start it, it turns over & sounds normal, but won't fire. I checked the plugs & they looked pretty bad. So I made another trip to town. Well, new plugs didn't help either.
I can smell fresh gas when I remove the plugs. And I've quadruple-checked the timing belt(I even checked the flywheel mark & distributor to make shure they were ate TDC).
I haven't had anything electrical apart, and there's apparently fuel(I'm guessing spark, too), but it still won't start....even though it was running with the timing off!!!
Any advice?
TIA
Pete
 

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Re: timing prob...please help! (Vdubs)

Vdubs- I just asked a timing post- maybe you can help me b/c of yur comment about the timing light-
Advance is counterclock- retard is clockwise.
I don't have a light, I'm just judging by best idle and backing off a little...
Comments please....
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: timing prob...please help! (gearhead455)

Well, I found my prob. I'm a victim of my own ignorance yet again.
I didn't realize the mark on the front(passenger's side)of the cam sprocket was in a different place then the mark on the rear(valve cover side). That is, until I took the valve cover off & realized the cam was nearly 180deg off.
Thanks for everyone's help & suggestions.
 

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Re: timing prob...please help! (petegossett)

Hey Pete, you have to be careful with the ignition timing. Unfortunately, adjusting the ignition timing on a Digifant is kind of a PITA. For the person just working by ear, I'd say you're chances of actually getting it right are slim, because Digifant needs to set itself properly to the right idle and ingition timing together for it's mapping.
Here's the procedure (I wouldn't worry too much about the CO Contents mentioned, unless you're having emissions problems, but ajusting idle and timing together is good.):
For best results, ignition timing, idle mixture (CO content), and base idle speed must be checked and adjusted simultaneously. Making these checks and adjustments together is very important in order to obtain satisfactory driveablity characteristics and emission levels. Final adjustment to the idle speed should be made only after the idle mixture is adjusted to specification. Final adjustments to the idle mixture (CO content) should only be made after the ignition timing is adjusted to specification. Do not attempt to perform this operation without the necessary equipment.
Check and adjust the basic engine settings in the following order:
1.Ignition timing
2.CO content
3.Idle speed
4.Final check of specifications
TEST AND ADJUSTMENT CONDITIONS
1.Engine oil temperature must be at least 176°F (80°C) and radiator cooling fan has operated at least once.
2.All electrical consumers switched "OFF" (radiator cooling fan must not be running during checking or adjusting).
3.A/C switched "OFF".
4.Idle switch is functioning properly.
5.Idle stabilization system operating properly, the valve must vibrate and hum while the ignition is "ON".
6.The exhaust system must be free of leaks.
7.There must be no engine vacuum leaks.
8.The oxygen sensor must be operating properly.
TEST AND ADJUSTMENT SET-UP
1.Turn ignition switch "OFF".
2.Connect VW 1367 engine tester (or suitable timing light and tach.)
3.Connect an EPA approved CO tester to the CO tap tube using VW special tool #6006-0019 high temperature silicone connecting hose, (or equivalent).
IGNITION TIMING
1.START the engine and raise the engine speed to a minimum of 2100 rpm four (4) times, letting the throttle close each time, (make sure engine has reached operating temperature).
NOTE: This clears the fault memory in the Digifant II control unit and cancels the hot-start idle increase function. This procedure must be repeated each time the vehicle is stopped and re-started during the test procedure.
2.Disconnect the harness connector from the engine coolant temperature sensor.
3.Increase the engine speed to 2300 ±50 rpm and check the ignition timing. Specifications are: Checking:4°to 8° BTDC Adjusting:6°±1°BTDC
4.If adjustment is necessary, loosen the distributor clamp bolt and rotate the distributor until specification is correct.
5.Tighten the distributor clamp bolt to: 18 ft.lb. (25 Nm)
CO CONTENT
1.Disconnect the coolant temperature sensor.
2.Raise the dipstick slightly to allow for crankcase ventilation.
3.Disconnect the crankcase ventilation hose from the emission control valve and plug the hose.
4.Adjust the idle speed using the idle air bypass screw to: 800 ±50 rpm
NOTE: This idle speed setting is used only for CO adjustment. The idle speed must be adjusted to a different specification after adjusting the CO volume.
5.Check the CO specification.
6.Record the CO value before adjusting.
7.CO reading must fall within band on Checking Tolerance graph.
8.If CO reading does not fall within the tolerance band, proceed with adjustment.
9.Remove the tamper-proof plug from the CO adjustment screw location on air flow sensor by drilling into plug with a: 0.098 in. (2.5 mm) drill bit
10.Thread a sheet metal screw into the drilled hole using a: 0.137 in. (3 mm) sheet metal screw
11.Pull out the screw (with plug attached) using pliers.
12.Adjust the CO as necessary by adjusting the CO adjustment screw in the air flow sensor with a: 5 mm hex wrench
13.Adjust the CO content according to the Adjusting Specification graph.
IDLE SPEED
1.Remove the plug from the crankcase ventilation hose and connect the hose to the emission control valve.
2.Re-seat the oil level dipstick.
3.Adjust the idle speed using the idle air bypass screw. Adjust idle speed to: 975 ±50 rpm
FINAL CHECK
1.Reconnect the harness connector to the coolant temperature sensor.
a.Idle speed must drop to: 800 ±50 rpm
b.Idle CO must be: 0.7% ±0.4% at any altitude
2.Install a new tamper-proof plug over the CO adjustment screw, if it was removed.
3.Disconnect the test equipment, and reinstall CO tap cap.
4.If only the idle speed is NOT OK:
a.Check the idle switch and wiring.
b.Check the idle stabilization system.
5.If only the idle CO% is NOT OK:
a.Check the oxygen sensor system.
6.If the idle speed and idle CO% are NOT OK:
a.Check the coolant temperature sensor and wiring.



[Modified by BookerDog, 10:26 AM 11-29-2001]
 

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Re: timing prob...please help! (BookerDog)

Booker Dog, you ROCK! Thanks for dropping knowledge like you did!!!
I'm the guy who times by ear, and I was trying to get it set, The above format is for Dig, clearly. My ear worked faithfully for years in the Pennsylvania winter (ie- hard starts) for my 1976 SAAB 99. I had CIS.
If you have time, do you know the basic tech for CIS timing? I will print it out for my DIY tech manual and call you "the Man" to whomever see it.

If not I understand, it's awesome to see someone putting in so much effort to help a total stranger.
 

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Re: timing prob...please help! (89turbrio)

quote:[HR][/HR]Booker Dog, you ROCK! Thanks for dropping knowledge like you did!!!
... it's awesome to see someone putting in so much effort to help a total stranger. [HR][/HR]​
Thanks Man! We dubbers have to stick together!
quote:[HR][/HR]I'm the guy who times by ear, and I was trying to get it set, The above format is for Dig, clearly. My ear worked faithfully for years in the Pennsylvania winter (ie- hard starts) for my 1976 SAAB 99. I had CIS. [HR][/HR]​
True, True. I relied a lot on the ear method for my CIS on the old '79 Rabbit. Doing it correctly though required, 1. setting the distributor point gap accurately with a feeler guage, and 2. Putting the inductive timing light on the number 1 plug wire and lining up the timing mark on the flywheel with the arrow in the hole on the tranny at idle. I seemed to do this once a month until I finally realized that my distributor was shot, and the fried bearings kept giving unpredictable firings.
quote:[HR][/HR]If you have time, do you know the basic tech for CIS timing?[HR][/HR]​
I don't. This came straight off of my alldatadiy.com account for my old '89 Jetta. Since my subscription doesn't expire until January for a car I sold in October, I figured I'd make some use of it.
If you haven't checked out alldatadiy.com you totally should. For an initial subcription of $20 for a year, and then $15 to renew it, you get an online shop manual. Alldata makes CD Rom repair guides for repair shops, and makes all the same info available to you online. It's not quite a Bentley, but it does pretty well, and I've had very good luck with them. Also, a huge thing is that all of the TSB's for your car are available, and they regularly update the repair info even for older cars.
 
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