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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yep that's right I have too much boost. Never thought I'd say that, but it's true. I've been getting 20psi from a 68mm at 6000 RPM so I thought that I would throw on the 58mm I have sitting around. I never intended to run the 58 full time on the street I just wanted an idea of the insane fun that much boost would be.
Well I put on th 58 yesterday and my C didn't like it at all.
First, the charger was making noise at idle. Not a bad noise, but I could hear it spinning. Probably only because it was spinning faster than normal, but I didn't like it. My 68mm is silent at idle and only makes noise that I can hear at high boost levels up in the RPM range. It made me nervous.
Second, the massive low RPM boost caused by normally quiet rod bearings to clack like a mofo when I romped on the gas until the RPM/oil pressure came up. I had to roll into the throttle/ boost in order to let the oil psi come up with the boost.
Third, although the low end boost response was massive and I loved it, the peak boost was about the same with the 58mm @ 5500 RPM as with the 68mm at 6000 RPM (20psi.) I didn't play around too much with it at high RPM or high boost because of the clacking brearings and because it was starting to snow pretty heavy.
Fourth, almost forgot to mention that my C has 190k miles on it
I don't want to push too hard. A 68mm with 20psi is pushing my luck far enough for now.
Bottom line, I took out the 58mm and switched back to the 68mm after about a 20 mile test drive. My car loves the 68 and purs like a kitten in all situations except when I rev to redline at full boost then she roars!
The 58 caused to many noises/problems for me to feel comfortable driving it. I'll try it again when I get a high volume oil pump installed to up my low RPM pressure. Right now my pressure is right at 10psi for every 1000 RPM. I'd like to get to 15psi/1000 RPM or higher.
Where can I get a high volume pump?


[Modified by thetatau87, 1:45 PM 1-26-2003]
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Too much boost? 58mm trial run. (AXISMODE)

quote:[HR][/HR]There is no such thing as "too much boost".
[HR][/HR]​
How did I know that you would be the first to chime in and say that?
 

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Re: Too much boost? 58mm trial run. (thetatau87)

if you want a high volume pump, grab a Eurotuner and look thru the parts website adds. I've seen em out there, just can't remember who had em. I think it was like $90.
and I have to agree, there is NO such think as too much boost

also you might concider replacing hte rod bearings. they are cheap and easy to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: Too much boost? 58mm trial run. (CaliG-60)

I replaced the rod bearings 28k miles ago. I won't try the 58mm again until spring so I'll have about 35-40k on those bearings then. I'll probably swap the bearings at the same time as the high vol pump.
 

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Re: Too much boost? 58mm trial run. (Rocc and Rado)

sounds like you have the smaller crank pully on there, cuz 20 psi on a 68mm pully is not normal
also if your motor has 190k on it and is running the stock injectors you dont need to be running even 20psi
you need to get 30# injectors and the chip to handle it to run 20 psi without blowing the motor
and i would not be considering running 20 psi on that thing without a rebuild soon
 

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Re: Too much boost? 58mm trial run. (Iceman666)

I personally think there might be a boost gauge out of calibration. I remember some of his comments from a few weeks back and it pointed to his boost gauge but I'm sure I'll be flamed as being jealous that somebody else has 20psi on a 68mm. but when I set my car up for 17psi my MFA matched my boost gauge.
Yes there is such a thing as too much psi if you don't have the fuel&timing to match it or you might/WILL blow a motor but you already know that from MR 25+ PSI man
 

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Re: Too much boost? 58mm trial run. (G60ING)

quote:[HR][/HR]I personally think there might be a boost gauge out of calibration. I remember some of his comments from a few weeks back and it pointed to his boost gauge but I'm sure I'll be flamed as being jealous that somebody else has 20psi on a 68mm. but when I set my car up for 17psi my MFA matched my boost gauge.
Yes there is such a thing as too much psi if you don't have the fuel&timing to match it or you might/WILL blow a motor but you already know that from MR 25+ PSI man[HR][/HR]​
ouch.
I'vbe seen g60's with 68mm pulleys making 20 psi....SAFELY tho, I wonder how they are doing that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Too much boost? 58mm trial run. (Iceman666)

quote:[HR][/HR]sounds like you have the smaller crank pully on there, cuz 20 psi on a 68mm pully is not normal
also if your motor has 190k on it and is running the stock injectors you dont need to be running even 20psi
you need to get 30# injectors and the chip to handle it to run 20 psi without blowing the motor
and i would not be considering running 20 psi on that thing without a rebuild soon[HR][/HR]​
Read my sig. 30# injectors with SNS stage 5-5. She runs great at that boost level. Burns no oil, no smoke, no noises. In other words there are no signs that there are any problems with the engine at all. Only problems I've had are with the 58mm making the bearings clack due to high boost at low RPM when oil pressure is low.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: Too much boost? 58mm trial run. (AXISMODE)

quote:[HR][/HR]I personally think there might be a boost gauge out of calibration. I remember some of his comments from a few weeks back and it pointed to his boost gauge but I'm sure I'll be flamed as being jealous that somebody else has 20psi on a 68mm. but when I set my car up for 17psi my MFA matched my boost gauge.
Yes there is such a thing as too much psi if you don't have the fuel&timing to match it or you might/WILL blow a motor but you already know that from MR 25+ PSI man
ouch.
I'vbe seen g60's with 68mm pulleys making 20 psi....SAFELY tho, I wonder how they are doing that.
[HR][/HR]​
I'm making that boost with a stock crank pulley and a lightly ported (gruven stage 2) rebuilt charger.
G60ING is right my MFA does not match my boost gauge, but my MFA reads 2-3psi higher than the gauge. Before the rebuild with the 68mm the MFA read 17-18psi when the gauge only read 14-15. They are both tapped into the same line going to the cluster. I trust the gauge.
As far as running that much boost safely, I've got the 30# injectors with the chip to run them and the A/F gauge goes instantly 2-3 bars into the rich. It's actually runing rich because jwatts went conservative on the fuel map because I told him how much boost I'm seeing. I tend to be a little conservative. That's why I took the 58mm off.
I guess I just got a ringer. The PO (original owner) took really good care of the car and it was stock when I got it. Hell the original charger lasted 160k before it spit a strip and still made 15psi before the rebuild, after it spit the strip!
 

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Re: Too much boost? 58mm trial run. (G60ING)

It's all good dude...dont sweat it. I dont take anything too personal.
Now, there should be NO boost build up at idle....it should be ALL vacuum. The whole thing of slapping on a smaller pulley and bearings (engine I'm assuming) begin to clack is just strange.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: Too much boost? 58mm trial run. (Rocc and Rado)

quote:[HR][/HR]isn't the aba oil pump high volume, or was it high pressure???
and yeah, there is no such thing as too much boost

but 20psi with a 68 kinda makes me nervous...[HR][/HR]​
I've seen the way you drive.
Like on the cruise before Waterfest. THAT makes me nervous! My GF almost crawled under her seat on that ride, and you blew past me like I was parked. Hehe that drive was much fun!
I started the poll about how much boost people are getting from fresh chargers http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=647497 19-21psi with 68mm got three votes. I've read of a couple other people, in europe I think, that were seeing around 20psi with a 68. Just like anything there is the average and then there are anomalies above and below the average. My charger is WAY above average
Be jealous, be very very jealous

Don't hate me because I'm boostyfull
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: Too much boost? 58mm trial run. (AXISMODE)

quote:[HR][/HR]It's all good dude...dont sweat it. I dont take anything too personal.
Now, there should be NO boost build up at idle....it should be ALL vacuum. The whole thing of slapping on a smaller pulley and bearings (engine I'm assuming) begin to clack is just strange.
[HR][/HR]​
It was not at idle that I was getting bearing noise with the 58. It was at low RPM when I stoped on the gas and the boost shoot up to 15psi at 2000 RPM and the oil pressure was only 20 psi. I got the same noise from my rod bearings that they used to make before I replaced them.
Boost at low RPM is the main reason G60's eat rod bearings. When boost is available at 1500-2000 RPM it puts a ton of load on the bearings when they aren't being fed with a lot of oil. Adding the boost of a smaller pulley and modded outlet that improves boost response (ie higher boost at lower RPM) compounds the problem causing the bearings to clack.
This is why I'm looking for a higher volume or pressure oil pump. What's the deal with the ABA pump? Gruven sells a heavy duty pump, but they don't say anything about pressure or volume output.


[Modified by thetatau87, 10:47 PM 1-26-2003]
 
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