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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Touch Motion AWD Programmer helps to unleash 25HP on HPA’s FT600

For the past year, customers have been raving about the flexibility the TMAP infuses into the early MK4 chassis. Here is an example of how using the TMAP to manipulate power distribution can reduce drivetrain loss, optimize power delivery, and unleash more power for a faster trap speed.

We recently prepared our (soon to be released) FT600 single turbo MK4 R32 for 2 days of track competition down in LA. This car was fit with front and rear differentials and we were tuning it for a drag racing event.

With the TMAP set in the Race-Speed mode, we are able to specify how much torque transfer to apply to the rear axle under different speeds. We wanted to launch the car with as much power to the rear wheels as possible for best traction off the line. For straight line racing, after reaching 60mph the car is stable enough in FWD to allow us to disengage the rear and max out the HP for the big long run to the timing lights.

You can see from these graphs from our AWD Superflow dyno how the total wheel HP is delivered between the front and rear wheels. By dropping off delivery to the rear we gain an instant correlation in HP as the load on the engine is reduced.

The result is that by manipulating the rear drive engagement we were able to find 25 additional HP; allowing the car to sail into the 120+ MPH trap speeds.












 

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:WARNING: P.S.A. DO NOT BUY THIS PRODUCT, FROM THESE PEOPLE.

These guys are clowns when it comes to listening, and reacting to their customer comments and concerns.


HPA every new thread you start I will post the above to help others who do not know how you roll avoid your shady business practices, and show you the frustration you caused over the last year for people who gave you a bunch of money, and then got strung along for months. :thumbdown::thumbdown:
 

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:WARNING: P.S.A. DO NOT BUY THIS PRODUCT, FROM THESE PEOPLE.

These guys are clowns when it comes to listening, and reacting to their customer comments and concerns.


HPA every new thread you start I will post the above to help others who do not know how you roll avoid your shady business practices, and show you the frustration you caused over the last year for people who gave you a bunch of money, and then got strung along for months. :thumbdown::thumbdown:
care to elaborate? if you're going to call out a vendor how about some backup?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Rex,

During the initial TMAP production run we did encounter a host of struggles and we did our best to openly communicate these issues to our advance purchasers. In efforts to appease any customers who were concerned with the unexpected delays, we offered future credits to those who chose to wait, and refunded those who did not.

We are pleased to report that the early issues have all be resolved and since the TMAP came to life, hundreds of units have been distributed globally; changing the way the 4-motion will be used from here on out. The Performance Suite was also completed this season and was recently issued as an update for all generations of TMAP.

As we enter our 25th year as an operation we have taken on countless aggressive new product developments for the market. Some have gone smoothly and as planned, some hit obstacles, but each one has been delivered and serves as a foundation block in our program.

We are continually striving to improve our customer service experience and are sorry to hear you are still feeling frustrated by your past experience with us. :peace:
 

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care to elaborate? if you're going to call out a vendor how about some backup?
Oh there is plenty of back up out there my friend.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7019878-HPA-TouchMotion-AWD-Programmer

^^^Here is the orig thread for this product. The issues with how it was handled by HPA are too long for me to type here but if you read the thread, paying attention to the dates of release promised, and the dates of HPA responding to concerns of paying customers, you will see what they did. I know its a long read, but i am not typing a 36pg thread, so you can read it if you want to really know how this company does biz.

Then when they were getting beat up pretty bad on that thread they somehow convinced the mods on here to lock the thread and start a new one seen below

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...D-Programmer-for-Gen-1-Haldex-4Motion-Systems

Which you can see did not go over very well because this was literally 1 year after the first announcement and some of the OG pre-orders had still not received the full package of what they paid for….1 YEAR LATER!

These guys had no business announcing this product when they did, furthermore had no business collecting money when they did. I think it was 5months late SOME of us got the thing, and now a year later i still have the TC light on my dash. This is because you need top be a computer wiz to updatre the thing (i don't know computers & i just want what i paid for, not a computer lesson), and apparently there are 2-3 updates that have been sent out since then, which i have not received either.

The problem is how they handled it. It was just so poor I advise all reading this not to give these guys money. Apparently this has been a problem in the past with them as well.


Rex,

During the initial TMAP production run we did encounter a host of struggles and we did our best to openly communicate these issues to our advance purchasers. In efforts to appease any customers who were concerned with the unexpected delays, we offered future credits to those who chose to wait, and refunded those who did not.

We are pleased to report that the early issues have all be resolved and since the TMAP came to life, hundreds of units have been distributed globally; changing the way the 4-motion will be used from here on out. The Performance Suite was also completed this season and was recently issued as an update for all generations of TMAP.

As we enter our 25th year as an operation we have taken on countless aggressive new product developments for the market. Some have gone smoothly and as planned, some hit obstacles, but each one has been delivered and serves as a foundation block in our program.

We are continually striving to improve our customer service experience and are sorry to hear you are still feeling frustrated by your past experience with us. :peace:
Well you're doing it wrong, and I will continue to warn people about you every new thread you start. :thumbdown:
 

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...some of the OG pre-orders had still not received the full package of what they paid for….1 YEAR LATER!
This is a lie. Everyone had received the product...a software update was the only holdup. The product without this update was completely functional as well.

I think it was 5 months late SOME of us got the thing, and now a year later i still have the TC light on my dash. This is because you need top be a computer wiz to update the thing...and apparently there are 2-3 updates that have been sent out since then, which i have not received either.
If you are having trouble doing the updates that have been sent to you - why not e-mail (or better yet call) us to ask for help? For a few customers, we have offered to do the update for them, if they ship the control box to us. I am not a "wiz" by any means, and I am able to successfully navigate through the update process. Regardless, HELP IS AVAILABLE IF you want it.

The problem is how they handled it. It was just so poor I advise all reading this not to give these guys money.
Software development on a new product can be tricky. There were a lot of unanticipated hurdles to be overcome, and there is no denying things took longer than expected. Having said that, I hope that customers that look at the dyno information above and see the value in the TouchMotion contact us directly and form their own opinion on the service.

In most instances, I refuse to banter in a thread where baseless comments are being made by people who have not bought or used a TouchMotion. This is one of the reasons the old thread was closed. The primary reason - our product release has completely changed (both in look and functionality) from the original pre-release. It did not make sense for people to click on a thread using old images and feature lists that were no longer applicable.

Use your time to reach out to us directly - let's get your unit updated and working properly. Then post a review of the product once it is installed and functional. I doubt you will be dissatisfied once the proactive steps are taken.


[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
They collect your money &,use to develop product
In fact give me your money's I will build you anything for r32 :laugh:
In the market we have today, when looking to push out new exciting options for a platform that is ten + years old, we certainly require support from our customers.
In the nearly 25years, this dedicated team has seen every product through and continued to optimize new solutions.

These guys had no business announcing this product when they did, furthermore had no business collecting money when they did. I think it was 5months late SOME of us got the thing, and now a year later i still have the TC light on my dash. This is because you need top be a computer wiz to updatre the thing (i don't know computers & i just want what i paid for, not a computer lesson), and apparently there are 2-3 updates that have been sent out since then, which i have not received either.

The problem is how they handled it. It was just so poor I advise all reading this not to give these guys money. Apparently this has been a problem in the past with them as well.
:
Rex,

When we encountered the issue in manufacturing that derailed our whole project, all our pre orders were offered an opportunity for a full refund. Not much else that could have been done and those that stayed on with the order were offered a voucher for $50 towards future purchases.

It is sad to learn that you have not updated the tool with the latest software. The feedback and user input received from the hundreds of happy users has resulted in expanded menus new capacities. Our software engineer takes all the market feedback straight into the updates and when exciting new features are available, and update is issued. The latest is the long awaited for performance suite. 0-60 and ¼ mile times at your finger tips.

Call our team and they can walk you through the update process. it is NOT easy to bring such technical products to life and I can’t imagine what you wish to warn people of, that our team is pushing the envelope and will deliver and stick to any commitment they make to our customers?


Use your time to reach out to us directly - let's get your unit updated and working properly. Then post a review of the product once it is installed and functional. I doubt you will be dissatisfied once the proactive steps are taken.


[email protected]
Well put Darryl. The amount of man hours invested into the software for TMAP is mind blowing but the results speak for themselves. It was a long journey to get it all as we initially envisioned, but it is the first of its kind on the market and it carries with it a big big impact on user FUN factor for the 4-motion platforms. Time to get out and PLAY!
 

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This is a lie. Everyone had received the product...a software update was the only holdup. The product without this update was completely functional as well.
It is not a lie!!!! I paid you for a product that worked out of the box, did I not?!? Now a year later, the product is now still not completely functional, otherwise I would have traction control right now, and the preformance suite. That is not "completely functional". And the way I see it, that means not everyone has received the product IN FULL that we paid for. What I do have is a screen that makes my TC not work, and who knows what else is not functioning in the damn thing. Furthermore when I expressed concern about the low quality of the mount sent with it and that it will not hold suction at all, and had to go buy another mount for 30$, you didnt even offer any help there. What I am saying is if you had marketed this as "buy this! It will be 5 moths late, it will do half of what we promised, it will permanently alter your cars TC, you will have to go buy another mount for it and we won't do anything financially for you through all these troubles" i wouldn't have bought the f****** thing. So again. THIS IS NOT A LIE, because despite me physically holding the box in my hand, IT IS NOT WHAT I PAID FOR.


If you are having trouble doing the updates that have been sent to you - why not e-mail (or better yet call) us to ask for help? For a few customers, we have offered to do the update for them, if they ship the control box to us. I am not a "wiz" by any means, and I am able to successfully navigate through the update process. Regardless, HELP IS AVAILABLE IF you want it.
Because I am done dealing with you clowns, and I'm chalking it up to a loss until I can go buy a UM tune and sell this paper weight. My goal now is to just steer others away from buying stuff from you, so they don't have to go through this shady stuff. So you can take your HELP and the 50$ gift card to your shop (that i told you was just barely enough to cover the new mount i had to buy) and stick it you know where... You truly need to look at how you deal with upset customers in the moment. Offering me help now is just insulting.


Software development on a new product can be tricky. There were a lot of unanticipated hurdles to be overcome, and there is no denying things took longer than expected
Well then you shouldn't play in that game if you can't do it right.

In most instances, I refuse to banter in a thread where baseless comments are being made by people who have not bought or used a TouchMotion. This is one of the reasons the old thread was closed. The primary reason - our product release has completely changed (both in look and functionality) from the original pre-release. It did not make sense for people to click on a thread using old images and feature lists that were no longer applicable.
What didn't make sense is how you all handled people who gave you the better part of 1000$ :thumbdown: I can't prove it, but the 36 pages of bashing on that thread is why I suspect you all shut it down. Hell if it was my biz on the thread, I would want that thing gone.

Use your time to reach out to us directly - let's get your unit updated and working properly. Then post a review of the product once it is installed and functional. I doubt you will be dissatisfied once the proactive steps are taken.
Buddy... I wouldn't give you the satisfaction. We are done here. The only time I will be reaching out to you is when i see you trying to advertise your stuff on here, and i will be placing my PSA as close to the first post as possible.

They collect your money &,use to develop product
In fact give me your money's I will build you anything for r32 :laugh:
Thats what I'm talking about. Total clowns.
 

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In the market we have today, when looking to push out new exciting options for a platform that is ten + years old, we certainly require support from our customers.
In the nearly 25years, this dedicated team has seen every product through and continued to optimize new solutions.!
This is fancy way of saying "we tell you about stuff we want to do, and collect your money to pay for our R&D." Well HPA... all i can say to that is you're doing it wrong.


When we encountered the issue in manufacturing that derailed our whole project, all our pre orders were offered an opportunity for a full refund. Not much else that could have been done and those that stayed on with the order were offered a voucher for $50 towards future purchases.!
You truly think that was sufficiant? Why would I want to go back and pay you more money in order to get 50$ off when you conduct yourselves the way you do? Why was my concern of the mount costing me half of your 50$ not addessed?

It is sad to learn that you have not updated the tool with the latest software. The feedback and user input received from the hundreds of happy users has resulted in expanded menus new capacities. Our software engineer takes all the market feedback straight into the updates and when exciting new features are available, and update is issued. The latest is the long awaited for performance suite. 0-60 and ¼ mile times at your finger tips.!
Trust me, I'm sad about it every day. And why don't you tell use about the hundreds of unhappy users out there? We know they exsist, just look at the OG thread.

Call our team and they can walk you through the update process. it is NOT easy to bring such technical products to life and I can’t imagine what you wish to warn people of, that our team is pushing the envelope and will deliver and stick to any commitment they make to our customers?
I am not disputing the good idea of the product, or how hard it is to make. I am saying you didn't handle a bunch of upset people well. Like...at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Planning on it. But i still think people should know about them. I wish i knew.
IF you were so hot about waiting, WHY did you not take the NO strings attacked refund deal that was offered to ALL early adopters while we hammered through a MAJOR unplanned production SET BACK?

difficulties creep up in any production model, do i need to bring up the TDI-EPA real time scenario to make my case that any size brand or operation such Apple, VW, or even little HPA are not immune to challenges.

HPA has delivered and continues to deliver TMAP's daily. Our bonus Performance suite is 100% up and running and there is no other means on the open market to get the 4-motion to behave as we have it now.
For sure it felt like a long road but it was inspired and supported by enthusiasts . Trust me, the R&D cost and production costs behind the scenes trump (not in the presidential candidate :) ) any funds earned for the first few years of this device hitting the streets.

seeing that you continue to rant, i am happy that the end of your story reads that

1)When HPA encountered a production delay that redefined the schedule they attempted to mitigate with a near 10% credit and a refund opportunity
2) HPA delivered within the year a fully working model and continue to update it for additional features driven by owner feedback
3) any reported bugs are addressed immediately with updates for all users to ensure long lasting enjoyment


Please keep warning people that in the near 25year of being in the VW tuning business we are still delivering and now just fight to get support needs to be called in so we don't have to hire an army to patrol the open forums looking for trouble cases.

maybe you will call our team to get some support loading in your updates. maybe you sell it and the next owner will take full advantage of it...time will tell.

We are still here working hard to keep owning an R32 fun and exciting...warn everyone please!:beer::beer::beer:
 

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I will admit It would have been more understandable if HPA would have been more upfront about taking money for R&D and not delivering a product. They lost me as a customer, but good luck to those who have this hope it works.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I will admit It would have been more understandable if HPA would have been more upfront about taking money for R&D and not delivering a product. They lost me as a customer, but good luck to those who have this hope it works.
At this point in the tread, one can only hope that it is obvious that pre orders could not have funded R&D! the original unit hit a hard wall right before release that caused a design change. When this road block finally came to light, any preorders were offered a full refund opportunity while we worked through the redesign elements. Those that kept their order received nearly 10% in credit towards future purchases for the appreciation of their belief that we could work through the hurdle.

R&D, development costs and tooling costs are all in a different spectrum.

The TMAP is an amazing device and per the dyno graph above, it allows even greater performance potential then handling alone! :thumbup:
 

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At this point in the tread, one can only hope that it is obvious that pre orders could not have funded R&D! the original unit hit a hard wall right before release that caused a design change. When this road block finally came to light, any preorders were offered a full refund opportunity while we worked through the redesign elements. Those that kept their order received nearly 10% in credit towards future purchases for the appreciation of their belief that we could work through the hurdle.

R&D, development costs and tooling costs are all in a different spectrum.

The TMAP is an amazing device and per the dyno graph above, it allows even greater performance potential then handling alone! :thumbup:
Ok I was not happy asked for a refund so lets just agree to disagree but since I'm here in the post what did the FT600 run in the 1/4mile that's where the proof is, whats the 60ft, trap speed
 
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