TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please??

1197 Views 15 Replies 11 Participants Last post by troze1200, Dec 5, 2001

germanrox

Discussion Starter · Dec 1, 2001

I'm having a discussion with a friend of mine who says he doesn't really see the advantage of a turbo over a supercharger. So I'd like to know the advantages/disadvantages of both, thanks!

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gti303

· #2 · Dec 2, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (germanrox)

why don't u just ask him how come the fastest most amazing cars use turbo's?!?! lol...
ok honestly, the main thing is...how fast can you spin a belt? ahuh...thought so...

[Modified by gti303, 6:20 PM 12-1-2001]

StealthJetta

· #3 · Dec 2, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (germanrox)

Simple answer...ask him to name all the supercharged production cars and non-drag race cars. Then have him name all the turbo production and non-drag race cars. It's about a 500:1 ratio in favor of the turbos.
The way I see it, as stated above, it comes down to the basic difference between the two: turbos use exhaust energy to compress the air (almost no engine drag), and superchargers compress it by running a belt off the crank (major parasitic drag). The supercharger has an advantage at lower engine speeds because the boost is "always" there, but once a turbo spools it wins the efficiency race every time.
Major elegance in design: use waste gas to create power...
Tell your friend to shut the hell up...

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troze1200

· #4 · Dec 2, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (germanrox)

Efficiency. There is pretty much no supercharger made that has the versatility of a turbo.
My favorite advantage is tunability. When I want to add forged pistons and more fuel, I can turn a knob and have more power. With a supercharger I'll have to buy some pulleys and a belt.
Porsche, Audi, Subaru, Volvo, and Peterbuilt didn't get thier success on superchargers.

joeZX6

· #5 · Dec 2, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (troze1200)

quote:[HR][/HR]Porsche, Audi, Subaru, Volvo, and Peterbuilt didn't get thier success on superchargers. [HR][/HR]

dont you mean turbos?

XSiVE

· #6 · Dec 2, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (joeZX6)

quote:[HR][/HR]Porsche, Audi, Subaru, Volvo, and Peterbuilt didn't get thier success on superchargers.
dont you mean turbos?[HR][/HR]

didnt get their success.

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JettaRed

· #7 · Dec 4, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (StealthJetta)

quote:[HR][/HR]Simple answer...ask him to name all the supercharged production cars and non-drag race cars. Then have him name all the turbo production and non-drag race cars. It's about a 500:1 ratio in favor of the turbos.
The way I see it, as stated above, it comes down to the basic difference between the two: turbos use exhaust energy to compress the air (almost no engine drag), and superchargers compress it by running a belt off the crank (major parasitic drag). The supercharger has an advantage at lower engine speeds because the boost is "always" there, but once a turbo spools it wins the efficiency race every time.
Major elegance in design: use waste gas to create power...
Tell your friend to shut the hell up...

[HR][/HR]

500:1? I don't think so! Only the most elegant use a supercharger--Mercedes, Jaguar, Pontiac (j/k). Major parasitic drag? Again, "major" is a relative term. But, I don't think 1/3 hp would be considered "major".
I don't mind being in the minority here, and I agree, you have more to fiddle with with a turbo, but let's not exagerate too much.
The main advantage that I see with the supercharger in aftermarket applications is that it is less troublesome because you CAN'T continuously tune it.
Production turbos are great. Had the 1.8T been out when I bought my car, that's what I would have gone with. But since it wasn't, the Neuspeed supercharger has been an answer to prayers for those of us who wanted to significantly boost power without all the headaches of turbo tuning that I've seen posted here.

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speed51133

· #8 · Dec 4, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (JettaRed)

you think a supercharger only drags a few hp??
your talking about tuning is TOTALLY irrelevant!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you the only way to tune a turbo is to crack it open, and replace the turbine with a different one. How many people here do this?????? NONE!
ZERO!
the question was being asked is...
"what are the advantages of a turbo over a supercharger"
if you have to tune ANYTHING that means your setup is incorrect, and its not the turbos fault, its your fault. Quit thinking the neuspeed charger represents superchargers, and that atp's turbo kit represents turbos!!

germanrox

Discussion Starter · #9 · Dec 4, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (speed51133)

Actually the question being asked is "TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please??" And So far I've tuned my car with a GIAC and a cup kit. But that wasn't my fault, that's just the way the car came.
There are more ways than just opening up a turbo to tune it. Turning up the boost is one obvious way.
And jettared, only the most elegant use superchargers? Um, Audi, VW, Porsche, and Ferrari are just some of the "elegant" companies I can think of that use Turbos to power some of their cars.
Anyways, back to my ORIGINAL question

What are the tuneability options of both Turbos and Superchargers?? Thanks!

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Hardcore VW

· #10 · Dec 4, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (germanrox)

One thing as far as "tunability" goes with a turbo,you can easily expieriment with different turbine housings to change whre your boost comes in in the rpm range.But realistically there's only 2 sizes that are readily available at most junkyard and that's a .48 and a .63 I tried both and liked the .63 much more,a couple other people out here did the same and used the .63 as well.

97GTI2.0

· #11 · Dec 4, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (Hardcore VW)

Hey hardcore how much did you spend on a turbo from a junkyard? Wha kind of car did you get it from? What other mods should you do for a turbo?

StealthJetta

· #12 · Dec 5, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (JettaRed)

>>Major parasitic drag? Again, "major" is a relative term. But, I don't think 1/3 hp would be considered "major".<<
Multiply that by 30. Or 40. I'll wait...
>>Neuspeed supercharger has been an answer to prayers for those of us who wanted to significantly boost power <<
You are now significantly at the level of a stock Neon.

[Modified by StealthJetta, 6:10 PM 12-4-2001]

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JettaRed

· #13 · Dec 5, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (speed51133)

What a crock, speed. Let's revisit all the posts over the last six months about guys with turbos having fuel problems, injector problems, plug problems, etc. Tuning in that case was getting the thing to run right in the first place. My comments are relevant.
And, I never said elegant cars didn't use turbos. I said that elegant cars use superchargers. There are not that many superchargers on the road, and the ones that are are usually higher end automobiles. I don't consider Pontiacs or Buicks in the same class as Jags and Benzes, but I do think their use of chargers is because turbos wouldn't give them what they were trying to achieve.
Regardless, I really don't care. Since it seemed that the only answers being given were pro-turbo, I thought I'd put in my two pfennings. Take it or leave it. I don't really care.

troze1200

· #14 · Dec 5, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (JettaRed)

If you will look at what speed is doing, you'll notice that he is pushing techknolodgy of 2.0t's. He is propably close to finishing the fastest street 2.0T on the tex. He had fuel issues because he had to upgrade lines to get over the 300 whp mark. He is not doing a basic set up, nor is he doing 200 whp.
I meant this in a nice, non offensive way.

6cylVWguy

· #15 · Dec 5, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (Golf_2K2L)

I'm not sure what side of this I ultimately agree with but, lets look at the cars that have s/c and those with turbo's. Most of the car w/ s/c are sports/luxury cars. Why, because power delivery is smoother in a s/c car. There is no such thing as s/c lag. What business type want to drive around in their jag and have to worry about sudden boosts in power. The s/c is great if you want a 4 cyl to drive like a 6, or 6 to drive like an 8. Or if you are running a huge big block muscle car or top fuel drag car. For the the smaller displacement cars, it seems that the highest hp potential will come from a turbo, with the sacrific of driving smoothness. I have driven a stock TT Supra, and that things doesn't have smooth power delievery. Either you are ball to the wall or you aren't. However, it is fast as hell. However, I have to agree some others here, the s/c idea requires a lot less fooling around to get it right. You can practically slap it on and is ready to roll and pretty releiable. With turbo's, you can get more power but reliability is always an issue. You always hear, "the turbo is just as reliable as a s/c, if set up right". The key is, "if set up right". To me that doesn't imply plug n' play, however, many s/c kits are just that way, such as the neuspeed and the z engineering kit. The other advantage to turbo's is they are also often cheaper to get the basic materials than a plug n' play charger. There is no easy winner, regardless of what many people will have you beleive.
Tom
94 SLC
86 Jetta coupe

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troze1200

· #16 · Dec 5, 2001

Re: TURBO VS. SUPERCHARGER: Tuneability advantages of both please?? (6cylVWguy)

If you drive a Turbo VW with stand alone engine management, they drive great. people forget that when you add a turbo, the stock ECU is of no real use. The ECU is going to read "irrational" inputs and freak out.
I've driven a few 2.9t's with stand alone management, adn tehy litterally drive like stock. You really cannot tune a turbo on a N/A car. It simply does not make sense to the stock computer, adn thus is NOT A COMPLETE TURBO INSTALL.
OI've done it all before, and seen it too. Our NA motors can't take a turbo correctly without the right programming. They just don't do it.

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