VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
469 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm not sure if this is a repost or not but the following is from the Ward's 10 Best Engines 2006 article.
-------
http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/a....html
Harsh reality is settling in. After winning 10 Best Engines awards in 2004 and 2005, no hybrid electric vehicle (HEV) powertrain made our list this year. Chalk it up to rising expectations and a declining gee-whiz factor.
In other words, our honeymoon with hybrids is over.
Environmentalists say HEVs are the magic bullet that will save the auto industry as well as the atmosphere. Auto makers are charging hefty premiums for the technology. In that light, the HEVs we tested this year are as good as ever, but not living up to their own hype.
We have been duly impressed in the past, naming Toyota Motor Corp. HEVs to the 10 Best Engines list twice and Honda Motor Co. Ltd.'s system once.
In 2001, we were thrilled with the way Toyota brought HEV technology to the practical Prius sedan in a relatively transparent fashion. In 2004, we were awed by how much Toyota improved the system.
Last year, judges were wowed by the way Honda's sophisticated Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) hybrid system dispelled the myth that HEVs have to be slow and boring.
This year, we could not ignore a few shortcomings.
First among our complaints, pointed out by a growing number of journalists and disgruntled owners, is real-world fuel economy far less than what is advertised.
Second, fuel economy is affected too much by driving style and ambient temperature.
The Lexus RX 400h is the epitome of luxury and environmental friendliness when we moved silently through stop-and-go traffic on full electric power. But once the vehicle's internal combustion engine gets involved with propulsion, we were less impressed. During hard acceleration it doesn't have the premium sound we expect from a vehicle with a base price approaching $50,000. Plus, we were underwhelmed with our 25 mpg (9L/100 km) average.
NASA astronaut Ken Mattingly spent tedious hours in a flight simulator figuring out a start-up sequence that used only 20 amps for an energy-starved Apollo 13. That made for compelling drama in a movie.
Employing the same power-saving tactics just to squeeze out something close to the EPA mileage from a Civic Hybrid on a cold day is a bit less engaging.
Want something close to its alleged 49/51 mpg (5L/100 km/4.6L/100 km) on a frosty morning? Forget about warming up the engine or using the defroster. Scrape the windows by hand, stay off the throttle and the expressway and get ready to shiver.
Enduring that kind of inconvenience is fine if you need to get back from space with your fuel cells spent, but not when you're just heading to work.
— Drew Winter
 

·
Registered
Bluestar, NA, XL40
Joined
·
15,373 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (James_K)

Funny how they don't say whether or not they get EPA ratings in the non-hybrids they drive. I also find it funny that they think the cold weather only affects hybrids and no other car.
Actually it's not funny. It's stupid. They could at least come up with something less lame than this.
My trip computer says my current tank is 56.7 mpg right now. Unhype that.


Modified by Sledge at 4:57 PM 4-22-2006
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,046 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (James_K)

when there are non-hybrids out there pushing 35-40mpg (civic) you have to ask why bother with spending the extra $.
if all these 260hp sedans were dropped down to 160-180hp their mileage would increase greatly as well.
common sense has been surpassed by over-engineering.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
469 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (Sledge)

Quote, originally posted by Sledge »
Funny how they don't say whether or not they get EPA ratings in the non-hybrids they drive. I also find it funny that they think the cold weather only affects hybrids and no other car.
Actually it's not funny. It's stupid. They could at least come up with something less lame than this.
My trip computer says my current tank is 56.7 mpg right now. Unhype that.

Modified by Sledge at 4:57 PM 4-22-2006

Ok. Just to recap
CNW Marketing Research lame? Check.
Ward's Auto lame? Check
 

·
Registered
Bluestar, NA, XL40
Joined
·
15,373 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (James_K)

Quote, originally posted by James_K »
Ok. Just to recap
CNW Marketing Research lame? Check.
Ward's Auto lame? Check

Just because you use a corporate letterhead to spread lies, doesn't make them any more truthful.
After you download their antihybrid "research", you can check out their model railroad.


Modified by Sledge at 5:11 PM 4-22-2006
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,720 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (Bob Opla)

Quote, originally posted by Bob Opla »
when there are non-hybrids out there pushing 35-40mpg (civic) you have to ask why bother with spending the extra $.
if all these 260hp sedans were dropped down to 160-180hp their mileage would increase greatly as well.
common sense has been surpassed by over-engineering.

there's much more to hybrid (and other auto technologies than saving gas $$$ )
there's, for example:
-ultra low levels of emission
-the start to move away from reliance on fossil fuels-which just happens to sit below some of the world's most volatile regions.
-innovation-which moves the entire auto industry forward
don't get me wrong, i like diesels. They can get great milages and has improved its emission, but it's still derived from petroluem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,338 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (Sledge)

Quote, originally posted by Sledge »

Just because you use a corporate letterhead to spread lies, doesn't make them any more truthful.
After you download their antihybrid "research", you can check out their model railroad.

Modified by Sledge at 5:11 PM 4-22-2006

Hybrids are a step in the right direction and a nice stopgap alternative. But, at this point at least, are far from being the cure for our petroholic society.
The initial cost is too much for alot of people and wether it really is economically advantageous to get a hybrid as opposed to the gas powered version of the same car is questionable.
There is also yet to be any true clear answer to the whole "What happens when the batteries die?" question either, where some say that the cost of a replacement may be similar to that of major repairs on a "regular" car. Granted, it's not something that you will have to do very often, probably only once in the life of the car, for that matter. That fact still doesn't stop it from being a notch under the "cons" for alot of people considering a hybrid.
A corporate letterhead doesn't mean you can't spread lies, but not agreeing with something or hearing something you don't want to hear doesn't necessarily make it false either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
403 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (Sledge)

never was big on hybrids. from friends who are owners the only way they say it really pays off is if you do short-commute city driving. highway travelling = no benefits in fuel consumption.
my honest opinion is that diesel, or modifications of diesel are the real future of the auto industry. that is why europe has so many different offerings
 

·
Registered
Bluestar, NA, XL40
Joined
·
15,373 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (DenCo)

Quote, originally posted by DenCo »

A corporate letterhead doesn't mean you can't spread lies, but not agreeing with something or hearing something you don't want to hear doesn't necessarily make it false either.

I did read it. Their reasons are nothing more than nicely packaged excuses and aren't worth the electrons used to display this thread on my CRT.
I never said they have to have a hybrid on their list but Wards is supposed to be better than this sensationalist junk.


Modified by Sledge at 5:26 PM 4-22-2006
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (RDT)

Quote, originally posted by RDT »

don't get me wrong, i like diesels. They can get great milages and has improved its emission, but it's still derived from petroluem.


Biodiesel is plant based...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,172 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (DenCo)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I think the test will be once Toyota is fully ramped up with a large lineup of hybrids... what will the price be then?
It seems obvious (accept to most of Joe Public) that these are best served City cars and not Highway vehicles. I don't know the split in America regarding % city vs. highway, but I know my driving would negate hybrids as a choice.
It is a stopgap to hopefully better tech, but then modern diesels should also be stopgaps... given the Fed figures out which type of pollution is worse.
I just wish Metro Detroit had a rapid transit system.
I actually miss taking the bus as a kid.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
469 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (Sledge)

Here's a real world test that's informative http://www.drivingtelevision.c...title= . If that link doesn't work, go to http://www.drivingtelevision.com and search for "Hybrid Commuter Challenge" . I don't claim to know who is right in this discussion but there are very credible people who make it sound like the fuel efficiency improvements of current hybrids are more marketing hype than reality.
-------
http://autonews.com/apps/pbcs....ETTER
Are hybrid powertrains something ZF wanted to do or was pressured to do?
"We have been working on hybrids for 10 years or so. As a technological-oriented company, we have to have a hybrid solution for our customers. And that is what we are working on."
How come we have not heard of ZF's work with hybrids until recently?
"You know in the beginning it was with buses, not cars. It looks like the market now is ready to talk about hybrids in motor cars."
Do you envision a big market for hybrids in Europe?
"In Europe it probably will be limited. As you know, the diesel has a very strong advantage over hybrids."
 

·
Registered
Bluestar, NA, XL40
Joined
·
15,373 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (James_K)

Quote, originally posted by James_K »
Here's a real world test that's informative http://www.drivingtelevision.c...title= . If that link doesn't work, go to http://www.drivingtelevision.com and search for "Hybrid Commuter Challenge" . I don't claim to know who is right in this discussion but there are very credible people who make it sound like the fuel efficiency improvements of current hybrids are more marketing hype than reality.

The Prius won. The HCH or HCH2 wasn't included.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,049 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (James_K)

You think people who can afford a Prius would buy a Corolla?
They just want to spend 25K~30K for a car. If no hybrid, they just choose another 25K vehicle. Then for those people, they are indeed saving their money. I applaud for them to support the new technology.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
469 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (Sledge)

Quote, originally posted by Sledge »

The Prius won. The HCH or HCH2 wasn't included.

Yes, and the Jetta diesel came in second. They also pointed out that the Prius had the smallest gasoline engine in the test.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19,846 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (James_K)

Is Sledge the RogueTDI of hybrids?

...runs for cover...
Someone should drag out that old drag race vid of the TDI versus the Insight. Wards is right, but they also should see how long it takes to warm up a Diesel versus a hybrid and add that in there. I'm curious which one would do better with a full warm up idle and defroster cycle on a cold winter morning.
 

·
Registered
Bluestar, NA, XL40
Joined
·
15,373 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (atomicalex)

Quote, originally posted by James_K »
Yes, and the Jetta diesel came in second. They also pointed out that the Prius had the smallest gasoline engine in the test.

Hybridization can allow for a smaller engine. What's wrong with that?
Quote, originally posted by atomicalex »
Is Sledge the RogueTDI of hybrids?

...runs for cover...

I'm nowhere near that angry.
Personally, I'd rather have an EV for my daily driver, but I haven't been able to make that happen yet



Modified by Sledge at 6:15 PM 4-22-2006
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
469 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (Sledge)

Quote, originally posted by Sledge »

Hybridization can allow for a smaller engine. What's wrong with that?

If you take the hybrid stuff out, it would probably still get good mileage with a 1.4L motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,588 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (bay)

Quote, originally posted by bay »
You think people who can afford a Prius would buy a Corolla?
They just want to spend 25K~30K for a car. If no hybrid, they just choose another 25K vehicle. Then for those people, they are indeed saving their money. I applaud for them to support the new technology.

Yeah, people don't realize that the Pruis does not really compete with the corrolla. HIDs, keyless entry/start, more advanced hvac/radio features due to it be integrated in the screen, NAV, and better interor materals.
My mom gets ~50mpg w/out A/C 75% HWY, BTW.
I wouldn't drive one myself, its too small and kind of slow but a good car. She would ahve paid $30k+ otherwise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,187 Posts
Re: Unplugging the Hybrid Hype (doolin98)

Quote, originally posted by doolin98 »
Biodiesel is plant based...

And what do you have to use to fertilize, harvest and process plants? Not only does biodiesel consume great amounts of petroleum to produce, it gets developing nations to turn over their agriculture from producing food products that can sustain locally to producing biofuel oriented products to sustain petroleum producers.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top