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Re: FV-QR (DCIdevil)

Quote, originally posted by DCIdevil »

This is what happens when you have a no holds barred government on science/research.
You can make leaps and bounds when you have a blank check and no one to say research is unethical or cruel.
Today we have too much bureaucratic/religious input to get any god damn thing done in this country..

My neighbor, Mr. Mosche Goldman, has been giving me some trouble. Do you have a soultion?
 

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Re: FV-QR (leaftye)

Quote, originally posted by leaftye »
I thought this was strange with its combo of tracks and front wheels. I believe this also has interchangeable "street" wheels in its tracks.
Sd.Kfz.251

That's a halftrack, they were somewhat common during WWII.
 

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Re: FV-QR (DCIdevil)

Quote, originally posted by DCIdevil »

You missed my point special, it was geared towards our current state of the union.
How we can't do ****ING anything without some tree hugger, pro life, greenpeace, gay, or religious activists putting a stop to logical and productive ideas.
Take this though: I AM NOT against any of those groups necessarily though.. It's just ridiculous how it limits forward progress in our current society.

You're either amoral or really, really stupid. Either way, GTFO. "Progress" for its own sake, unchecked by a moral compass or by the rule of law, isn't progress at all.
 

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Re: FV-QR (winstonsmith84)

Quote, originally posted by winstonsmith84 »

My neighbor, Mr. Mosche Goldman, has been giving me some trouble. Do you have a soultion?

I wish you people would stop comments like this...the poster was saying that they made such incredible technological innovations because the German government let them run wild. We are strictly talking about weapons of war.
Oh and Tiger87, I hope you don't go to Clemson, because I was under the impression that my Alma Mater had rules about admitting people who were short sighted couldn't look at the big picture. OR you're being sarcastic...and if so
 

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Re: FV-QR (NightTrain EX)

Quote, originally posted by NightTrain EX »

I wish you people would stop comments like this...the poster was saying that they made such incredible technological innovations because the German government let them run wild. We are strictly talking about weapons of war.

If we were talking strictly about drawing board innovations, I might give you a pass on this. Since we are are talking about actual production war material, you better step back. Have you ever looked at pictures of US WWII production? Women, old men and midgets. How about German? Have you? Who built these Tigers? Who tested out cutting edge technological theory? Tell us? Not sure? I'll tell you. Slaves. Jews, POW's, enslaved civilian Slavs....
Now, I respect and admire the technological advances that came from the war, both Allied and Axis. These advances built the modern world. They came at a terrible cost both in military and civilian lives. With no moral compunction, it was easy for the Nazi's to apply things like high altitude testing simulations to actual war production. They didn't use monkeys. Don't forget it.




Modified by winstonsmith84 at 6:30 AM 11-25-2009
 

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FV-QR

Quote, originally posted by mxpx09rawker »

As far as I know, this is the only 2 seat A-10 in existance. And I drive by it every day on the way to work!

http://www.tankkiller.com/photos/owl/


Quote, originally posted by me, a couple days ago »

Someone asked about there being a 2 seater....Sheppard Air Force Base (Wichita Falls, TX) had 1 of them there for a Air Show in '02. It was out of Edwards AFB. Officially it was the A-10B NAW (night-adverse weather) used for test-purposes only, never green-lit for active duty use.


And someone posted that link a few days ago, too - with some other photos. Thanks for confirming that it is, in fact, still at Edwards AFB. Appreciate it! Is it a static or active display??? They didn't say if they flew it in or had it transported to Sheppard AFB.
 

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Re: FV-QR (winstonsmith84)

Quote, originally posted by winstonsmith84 »

If we were talking strictly about drawing board innovations, I might give you a pass on this. Since we are are talking about actual production war material, you better step back. Have you ever looked at pictures of US WWII production? Women, old men and midgets. How about German? Have you? Who built these Tigers? Who tested out cutting edge technological theory? Tell us? Not sure? I'll tell you. Slaves. Jews, POW's, enslaved civilian Slavs....
Now, I respect and admire the technological advances that came from the war, both Allied and Axis. These advances built the modern world. They came at a terrible cost both in military and civilian lives. With no moral compunction, it was easy for the Nazi's to apply things like high altitude testing simulations to actual war production. They didn't use monkeys. Don't forget it.

Modified by winstonsmith84 at 6:30 AM 11-25-2009

How does the old saying go?
Necessity is the mother of all invention, and in this case, desperation?
The Tiger, Tiger II, and Mauser (sp) tanks where all steps backwards in tank technology. Heavily armored pill boxes essentially. A far cry from Germans Mobile warfare as they had fallen on a defensive ideology which was also present with the channel defenses.
The Soviet T-34 was a leep forward over anything the Germans had. Sure, it was built to the lowest bidder and for mass production, crewed by poorly trained, ill experience conscripts, but it was superior in practice and theory. It was also based off an American design from the late 20s and 30's. Americans had scuffed at the idea due to inter-department-service conflicts.
Infantry won wars, not @#% damn rolling tin cans, as a result the Army feared a "Tank Corp" and regulated tank designs and purchases to "mobile pill boxes".
US M3 Lee which would be redesigned into the Sherman.

French Char B

Many tank designs leading into WWII featured this approach, howitzers or main guns lodged in the haul, and multiple machine gun positions around the vehicle. This compromised armor protection greatly, made the main gun a "Defensive weapon" and added weight slowing the vehicle to a rumble. The French Char, which in fact was far more capable then a Pazer II or Pazer III (used to invade France) was nerfed by the French army with governors limiting their speed to ~10mph. Heaven forbid the go on the offensive or steal the glory from the French Infantry.
Needless to say, the Germans also failed to develop any of their technology into a practical purpose. Where were the heavy bombers and long range fighters? That is great they had a King Tiger, how many did they make, how reliable where they? Rather stupid to build gas hungry jets, expensive rocks, precision material required, fuel jugging tanks at a point where you are running out of fuel, money and raw material... no? Not to mention you could never have competed production number wise on a good day, let alone an improvised factory in the middle of a battle field. Short sighted, short sighted, short sighted.
 

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Re: FV-QR (Corbic)

Another limiting factor of many French tanks was their poor turret design. IIRC the tank commander also had to function as a gunner on some of their designs.
 

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Re: FV-QR (a1veedubber)

Quote, originally posted by a1veedubber »
Another limiting factor of many French tanks was their poor turret design. IIRC the tank commander also had to function as a gunner on some of their designs.


Yep. Most of the early French designs only had enough room in the turret for the tank commander. He had to command the tank, work the radio, and fire and reload the turret gun(s).
 

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Re: FV-QR (a1veedubber)

They were also committed individually in an infantry support role only by the French command. What can an already outdated Char B.1 do against 3-6 Pzkw III's? The French had entered into a conflict hoping to fight it the same way they had fought the last one, not realizing that the world had changed a great deal in the last 20 years.
 

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Re: FV-QR (Mooosman)

Quote, originally posted by Mooosman »


Yep. Most of the early French designs only had enough room in the turret for the tank commander. He had to command the tank, work the radio, and fire and reload the turret gun(s).

Few if any had radios in 1939, they still used flag signals. While radio was available, once again, they wanted the tanks to stay close together and work as a mobile defense line.
 

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Re: FV-QR (Corbic)

Quote, originally posted by Corbic »


Necessity is the mother of all invention, and in this case, desperation?

Very true. If I were in Albert Speer's place, I would have done the same thing. Used the labor that was avalible. I don't think Speer realized just what that meant, but somthing had to be done. Then current German ideology made it easier to do.
Back to the Tank Lounge!
 

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Re: FV-QR (winstonsmith84)

Quote, originally posted by winstonsmith84 »

Very true. If I were in Albert Speer's place, I would have done the same thing. Used the labor that was avalible. I don't think Speer realized just what that meant, but somthing had to be done. Then current German ideology made it easier to do.
Back to the Tank Lounge!

Not at all what I was saying.
What i implied was, people are talking about German advances in WWII, and i said those advances only took place because they HAD TOO.
The allies had similiar examples of Jets, Rocketry et al, however these in most cases took a back seat to refining current technology or expanding current forces.
I would argue the US made more advances in weaponry and aircraft. After all, we actually finished and used the only terror to still haunt this world, not to mention the over whelming superiority of American aircraft and artillery precision.
 

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Re: (Lithium Lotus)

Quote, originally posted by Lithium Lotus »
WWI British tank

I LOVE the look of those tanks. Any idea how comparable they were to the more common design?
 

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Re: (BlitzAction)

Quote, originally posted by BlitzAction »

I LOVE the look of those tanks. Any idea how comparable they were to the more common design?

what exactly do you mean by comparable?
They could only shoot in the direction they were facing, so they were pretty handicapped with just that factor.
 

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Re: FV-QR (Turbiodiesel!)

Quote, originally posted by Turbiodiesel! »

You're either amoral or really, really stupid. Either way, GTFO. "Progress" for its own sake, unchecked by a moral compass or by the rule of law, isn't progress at all.

I can agree with that, however you have to step on people's toes sometimes to make forward progress is all I was saying.
If we cater to every single person out there who has a qualm against something for 'moral' reasons this country is doomed.
Call me amoral all you want if my statement fits the definition.
 

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Re: (silvERia)

Quote, originally posted by silvERia »

what exactly do you mean by comparable?
They could only shoot in the direction they were facing, so they were pretty handicapped with just that factor.

Er, not really, they had weapons mounted in the sides that could rotate to cover any 90degree area. Granted they had a large number of blind sides.
These where mobile pill boxes, capable of roughly 5mph (jogging speed) on flat terrain. They lacked the required torque to move them over extremely rough terrain, where extremely unreliable and had zero suspension. Life inside was hell as they filled with noxious exhaust and smoke, had no external vision. Operators wore chain mesh masks and vests as the armor was so thin when struck with rife and machine-gun fire fragments of the armor would splinter off and injure the crew.
There is nothing comparable as these are the first of their kind. Males tanks had cannons, while female tanks had machinguns.
MK I Male

MK IV Femaie, the large wood bushel would be cut loose and dropped into a trench so the tank could clear the tench and continue on.

The French Renault was a superior design to the British Mk-series, Whipette and the German A7V, as the Renault moved away from the Pill-Box idea and into a more mobile weapon. It had a crew of two, was quicker then the other lumbering beats and had a turret. The main weapon could be a single or duel machine gun or a small cannon. The US would buy rights to this vehicle and we would use it as our initial tank as well.
Unlike today, we were much better friends with the French then British, we even used French aircraft in WWI.

German A7V - it had a crew of 9 IIRC. I believe the A7V was also credited for the first ever Tank-V-Tank kill, striking down a disabled British Whippete.




Whippet, the engine is in front.



Modified by Corbic at 12:19 AM 11-30-2009
 

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FV-QR

The WWI tanks were terrible. First off they were extremely slow. An infantryman could run faster. Their armor could barely stop a rifle round. The fumes from the engine suffocated the crew and if that wasn't bad enough you would get baked alive too. Their cross country mobility was terrible at best. They had no suspension to help get them through ditches and other obstacles. I couldn't imagine riding in one of these tanks. Last but not least they were very unreliable and under powered.
I've seen a British MKV in person. It is a massive tank. The length of it is just astounding. If I was a German seeing one of those for the first time I would have ran for sure. Here are a couple pics I took.


 

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Re: FV-QR (Corbic)

Quote, originally posted by Corbic »

Not at all what I was saying.
What i implied was, people are talking about German advances in WWII, and i said those advances only took place because they HAD TOO.

I'm with you now. I think what I'm saying is that yes, the rapid advancement in armaments HAD to take place, for both sides. For Germany to make the jump from drawingboard to battlefield, some unseemly things DID take place. They had no alternative.
 
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