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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So why are companies like BMW and Vw using these large engines. They dont seem to produce as much power as you think they would and sometimes I think it would be better to use a strong V8. Why are these 12 cylinder motors starting to pop up everywhere. Gas price are rising quickly so why would a person pick a model with a V12 in it if they could get a smaller motor with almost the same power output?
 

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Re: V12 and W12 in cars today. Why???? (GTI_FEVER)

Glass smooth power. For the luxury end it isn't just what you do, it's how you do it. The Jaguar double six was famously smooth, they discontinued it and had to bring it back.
 

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Re: V12 and W12 in cars today. Why???? (GTI_FEVER)

Because the car companies want the $$$ of the rich. For the prestige. And to get the power of a 6.0 V12 (W12) you need to turbocharge a V8 or make it also 6.0 liters.
 
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Re: V12 and W12 in cars today. Why???? (GTI_FEVER)

Glass smooth power. And if you can afford the car, you can afford the gas.
What's interesting (to me, at least) is that the brand still existant today that's most famous for V12s--Jaguar--has moved away from them for not being sporting enough to fit their current brand image.
 

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Re: V12 and W12 in cars today. Why???? (spockcat)

Quote, originally posted by spockcat »
Because the car companies want the $$$ of the rich. For the prestige.

It is all about the prestige!!! Something different, not everyone on the block has a 12 cyl engine in their car...
 

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Re: V12 and W12 in cars today. Why???? (bgluckman)

Funny that, the TWR Jaguar XJS was a total beast. I watched then trash the BMW 635s in the Bathurst one year, before they put a chicane in Conrod Straight and all that safety stuff.

The 5.3 was 400hp, the 6.0 Lister Jags had 496hp and hit 60 in 4.4 and 100 in 10 seconds.
Not sporting enough?
 

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Because there's no easier way to make that kind of power in a 4-5,000lb. luxury car, especially when you start turbocharging. Period. Name the V8 that could propel a Maybach 57 to 60mph in 5.1s so effortlessly.
Audi 6.0L W12: 450hp, 435 lb-ft. @ 4,000rpm
BMW 6.0L V12: 438hp, 444 lb-ft @ 3,950 rpm
BMW 6.75L V12: 453hp, 531 lb-ft. @ 3,500rpm
Mercedes 5.5L twin-turbo V12: 550hp, 663 lb-ft. @ 2300 rpm
Mercedes 6.0L twin-turbo V12: 500hp, 590 lb-ft. @ 1800 rpm
Mercedes 6.0L twin-turbo V12: 612hp, 737 lb-ft. @ 2,000 rpm


Modified by trbogti at 2:36 PM 5-18-2004
 

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Re: V12 and W12 in cars today. Why???? (bgluckman)

it's the same logic that puts a v6 in a car instead of an I4 (b/c plenty of 4's make the power of 6's) and an 8 instead of a 6. the smaller ones might make as much power, and even be a little more fuel efficient, but they aren't as smooth.
 
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Re: (trbogti)

Well, but these HP numbers aren't far off Jaguar's supercharged 4.2-L V8 (400 hp, 399 lb-ft). And remember, the supercharged AJV8 is a lighter engine than any of the V12/W12s.
Of course, the character is not nearly as glassy-smooth as the 12 cylinders--hence the difference.
 

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Re: (bgluckman)

Quote, originally posted by bgluckman »
Well, but these HP numbers aren't far off Jaguar's supercharged 4.2-L V8 (400 hp, 399 lb-ft)

Yeah, but the torque is the real difference. Jag's V8 only approaches Audi's W12 in torque output.
 

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Re: V12 and W12 in cars today. Why???? (GTI_FEVER)

Quote, originally posted by GTI_FEVER »
Gas price are rising quickly so why would a person pick a model with a V12 in it if they could get a smaller motor with almost the same power output?

People who can afford these cars don't give a damn about gas prices.
 

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Re: V12 and W12 in cars today. Why???? (bgluckman)

Quote, originally posted by bgluckman »
Glass smooth power. And if you can afford the car, you can afford the gas.
What's interesting (to me, at least) is that the brand still existant today that's most famous for V12s--Jaguar--has moved away from them for not being sporting enough to fit their current brand image.

cuz it's too expensive for Ford.
 
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Re: (trbogti)

Quote, originally posted by trbogti »
Yeah, but the torque is the real difference. Jag's V8 only approaches Audi's W12 in torque output.

Who cares, though, about having 35 lb-ft of torque less when you've also got about 600 lbs less to carry around? The XJL Super V8 is significantly lighter than the Audi, even considering the AWD hardware.
 
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Re: V12 and W12 in cars today. Why???? (blackmirrorVR6)

Quote, originally posted by blackmirrorVR6 »
cuz it's too expensive for Ford.

Eh? Ford already has a V12 in the family--the Aston Martin V12 was considered for the XJ (it fits). Jaguar just decided against it for the time being since the supercharged AJV8 was considered more fitting.
 

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Re: V12 and W12 in cars today. Why???? (GTI_FEVER)

V12s (also I6s and any boxer engines for that matter) are free from all first and second order forces and moments. the large moving parts (i.e. pistons, connecting rods) are completely balanced so that there is virtually no vibration.
why use a v12 over an i6 or h whatever?
1. prestige
2. (vs. i6) twice the number of of combustions for every turn of the crankshaft means its even smoother
3. (vs. h whatever) v12s are narrower... but longer
 
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