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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well I got dyno'd again and I am less than enthused. My "baseline" pull was about one month ago on the same machine with 17" wheels, todays pulls were with 16's (and Blizzacks!). It was 30 degrees and snowy today and 55 and partly sunny for the "baseline". Anyway it kinda sucked overall both days...

Here is the the car with Neuspeed exhaust and a K&N panel filter 9/8/01

Here is the car with UPsolute chip, exhaust and the K&N on 10/20/01 Vs. the 9/8/01 pull
http://a5.cpimg.com/image/07/31/6524935-a940-02000186-.jpg[IMG]
Here is todays pull with the chip, exhaust and the Viper air intake hooked up to the stock snorkle
[IMG]http://a8.cpimg.com/image/76/E2/6974838-d72f-02000188-.jpg
And todays Vs. the "baseline" 10/20/01 Air/Fuel Ratio:

Anyway all this means is that I am not extracting much power from our beloved VR6, dissapointing I guess.. My car feels better than it ever has, although I haven't driven a stock version of my car since I bought mine almost 1 year ago to the day.
I realise that my Dyno methods are less than scientific and that the mods I have done won't give me crazy power but nonetheless I have over $1000 invested between the chip, intake, and exhaust for approximately 5-7 hp, "yeah but it all sounds good, looks cool", dissapointing to say the least...
I have been really rethinking my mod strategy lately and thinking that maybe styling/handling/braking mods are/were the way to go....
Cant get the 10/20 dyno pull pic up... I'm working on it..
[Modified by Phishy, 6:52 PM 11-26-2001]

[Modified by Phishy, 6:54 PM 11-26-2001]

[Modified by Phishy, 6:57 PM 11-26-2001]

[Modified by Phishy, 7:00 PM 11-26-2001]

[Modified by Phishy, 7:04 PM 11-26-2001]

[Modified by Phishy, 7:07 PM 11-26-2001]


[Modified by Phishy, 7:10 PM 11-26-2001]
 

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Re: Viper CAI Dyno...not great... (Phishy)

Here is the the car with Neuspeed exhaust and a K&N panel filter 9/8/01


Here is the car with UPsolute chip, exhaust and the K&N on 10/20/01 Vs. the 9/8/01 pull


Here is todays pull with the chip, exhaust and the Viper air intake hooked up to the stock snorkle

And todays Vs. the "baseline" 10/20/01 Air/Fuel Ratio:



[Modified by KJ-VR6, 10:09 PM 11-26-2001]
 

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Re: Viper CAI Dyno...not great... (Phishy)

Wow sorry to hear about your results...ever think of switching to a GIAC chip?? Spending that much for 5-7 HP is the worst investment ever in my opinion, I can totally understand why you'd rather spend your money on handling instead, at least then you cantruly feel the gains!!
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Viper CAI Dyno...not great... (KJ-VR6)

KJVR6 WTF I've been trying for 20 mins to see that picture...
Yeah I agree on the cost/benefit analysis, I'm beginning to wonder I guess what the engine has left in it without FI... I figured with cams and the mods I have I could be looking at 190 whp, hell I figured I would be at least 165hp by now!! I picked UPsolute because they had a rep. in my area, and I am very happy with their service, slightly dissapointed in the chip and quite dissapointed in the Intake at this point. They are working on revised files for the Viper owners and who knows they may get it sorted out, hopefully these pulls and the A/F plots will help them . Don't get me wrong, I love my VR6, am relatively happy with UPsolute and my Neuspeed exhaust, the intake looks super cool and sounds pretty good too. But my wheel and tire upgrade and Cup kit were hands down the best mods I have done to the car...


[Modified by Phishy, 7:21 PM 11-26-2001]
 

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Re: Viper CAI Dyno...not great... (Phishy)

I pulled 168hp and 185trq with UPsolute, the 3" PVC CAI mod, and drop-in ITG filter. Total cost is about $410 for this setup with exhaust coming next.
I was pretty happy with those numbers...and have heard that the Viper CAI hasn't been up to par. I think I will be sticking with my $10 intake!
I would be courious to see what your change would be if you put the stock box in with ITG/K&N filter and plumbed it yourself like I did.
 

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Re: Viper CAI Dyno...not great... (MotoMannequin)

quote:[HR][/HR]There's something wrong this graph:
Torque & Horsepower are always equal at 5250 rpm because hp = trq*rpm/5250 What's up? That graph is physically impossible.
[HR][/HR]​
I agree... something is wrong here... might wanna go back n see the dyno operator...
 

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Re: Viper CAI Dyno...not great... (DaBlackJetta)

DBJ and Moto -
There is nothing wrong with the dyno, the scales are inequal for tq and hp so you cannot look at the lines alone. The figures are roughly 150 at 5250rpm. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Edit: Wrong choice of words, the scales are equal, just offest by 10.


[Modified by Bryan S, 10:35 PM 11-26-2001]
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: Viper CAI Dyno...not great... (Phishy)

Wow I feel the love... like 3 replies... anybody have an A/F plot that I can compare mine against, The dyno operators said that it looked pretty lean...
 

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Re: Viper CAI Dyno...not great... (RainbowGTI)

5hp and 8lb-ft at the wheels?.. seems right, doesnt it?...
the first dyno looks crunk...
p.s. getting power 4rm a VR6 is $$$$... right now im working on styling/handling/braking.
 

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Re: Viper CAI Dyno...not great... (Phishy)

quote:[HR][/HR]Ok I've heard the TQ/HP at 5250 thing, is this in fact a golden rule (yeah I don't get math), if so what do I tell the Dyno operators???[HR][/HR]​
Yes, it is a golden rule.
BUT, since the scales for Tq and Hp are different on the graph, they won't meet there. Don't worry about it.
What you should look into is why you're not making that much power. I personally saw a 12hp difference when one of my friends took his VR6 Jetta to be dynoed. He had stock, Up and GIAC chips, and both the GIAC and UP gave 12hp improvements. Somethin' ain't right with yours....
[edit]Oh, hey....look at that! 1000 posts. Yay me.[/edit]


[Modified by BrandonC, 11:47 AM 11-27-2001]
 

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Re: Viper CAI Dyno...not great... (Phishy)

Compare yours:
quote:[HR][/HR]And todays Vs. the "baseline" 10/20/01 Air/Fuel Ratio:

[HR][/HR]​
To Mine:
Image uploading. Refresh page to view

Putting them side-by-side I noticed that your blue curve does not look normal. There shouldn't be such a drastic difference between the two curves. Our dyno operator, who has dyno'd a lot of VR6's said my Garret A/F curve was "almost perfect" (red curve in my graph). You did end up more lean than me by 6000 but ended up maing less power (more lean should = more power), so my guess would be that the problem lies with the Up chip. Try and wait it out for Upsolute's Viper CAI version of the software. If that doesn't solve things, then go get yourself an S4!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Seriously though I'm sorry to hear about your crappy numbers. Maybe you did get "one of the weak ones?" Another possiblity is that the calibration of the dyno has changed since you did your baseline run over a month ago. Maybe you should try doing a back-to-back on the same day/dyno type-deal like I did???
 

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Re: Viper CAI Dyno...not great... (NeoJetta)

You have to consider that the gains the cold air intake will give, will only become aparent when the car is really moving. Having a fan blowing on the front of the car really isn't the same.... If you really want to properly test the viper I'd suggest doing a datalog run with a VAG-com in 3rd gear then using wolfsburg_de's Butt-dyno excell chart to create a dyno from your data file. I think that would be the only way to accurately judge the performance of any CAI.....
 

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Re: Viper CAI Dyno...not great... (Bryan S)

quote:[HR][/HR]DBJ and Moto -
There is nothing wrong with the dyno, the scales are inequal for tq and hp so you cannot look at the lines alone. The figures are roughly 150 at 5250rpm. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Edit: Wrong choice of words, the scales are equal, just offest by 10.

[Modified by Bryan S, 10:35 PM 11-26-2001][HR][/HR]​
Bryan S. is right. If you look at approx. 5250 rpm, trq=150 lb-ft, hp=150. My mistake.
That said, I don't really understand the advantage an intake made of carbon fiber. Maybe someone could enlighten me on this, but I see it as strictly for looks. Carbon fiber has excellent strength to weight ratio and rigidity when used in tubular or space frames, but does it have an advantage over extruded tubes in an intake? The cf tubes look smooth on the outside because the weave in the carbon is filled with an epoxy resin and sanded smooth much like fiberglass. But wouldn't the inside of the tube still have the rough texture of the carbon weave? I haven't seen this intake in person, so correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the first thing I thought of with carbon fiber tubing. A rough surface would cause eddy currents in the rapidly moving air, making for a cool looking but ineffecient intake.
 
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