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VVT for VR6

4275 Views 49 Replies 20 Participants Last post by  usdm
I had posted about this several months back. We are about to start the testing for the ABA in a few more weeks. Once that is completed, we may proceed with the 12v 2.8. But I want to see if there is still interest first. You can follow the link for on the 2.0L here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=118569
While we are actively doing the 2.0L, just about all the information will apply to the 2.8L for the most part.
If there is a good amount of interest for this, we will start on the VR6 12vs shortly after successful completion of the ABA.
To get on the mail list for more information, email me [email protected] , and put 2.8 VVT in the subject. Nothing else is needed, and I will send you the information that the 2.0L guys are getting. Please be sure that you put in 2.8, not 2.0L. this will give me an accurate idea of whos seriously interested.
If you have any questions that the mailing we send out does not answer, please just post here in this forum. This will keep me from confusing you guys with the 2.0L folks. Anticipated time for us to start on the 2.8L will be another 5 to 6 months, or sooner. Thanks.



[Modified by usdm, 3:30 PM 11-26-2001]
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Re: VVT for VR6 (usdm)

wow....imagine VR6 Vtec Turbo...
kick ass...
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Re: VVT for VR6 (Uncle Ben)

alright people...this is for real....let this man know your interested...
I am 4 sure!

I will shoot you an email
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Re: VVT for VR6 (oneflygti)

If VW ever goes variable timing, u can guarantee it will be better, faster then a honda setup.
Im sure we all driven hondas b4 .. i hate the rev hungryness.... just no fun.
Re: VVT for VR6 (1BadAzzVR6)

1BasAzzVR6, VW already has some kind of varable timing on new 24V VR6's if I remeber correctly and it didn't seem to be much of a performance gadget. Using the ricey hp/L argument 24V is still not very impressive- 71 hp/L. It's good power output when comparing it to Audis V6 or Eclipses V6, but the VW variable system it self is nothing to brag about when compered to VTEC and the like. It would be nice to see 24V VR6 pump out around 260-280hp NA stock, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.



[Modified by EuroTrash2, 10:26 PM 11-26-2001]
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Re: VVT for VR6 (1BadAzzVR6)

suckers
Re: VVT for VR6 (usdm)

usdm, I read all the stuff in 2.0 VTec thread and I was wondering if you have any estimates on the price for the VR6 kit. Is it gonna run close to what you plan to sell the 2.0 for?
Re: VVT for VR6 (1BadAzzVR6)

quote:[HR][/HR]If VW ever goes variable timing, u can guarantee it will be better, faster then a honda setup.
Im sure we all driven hondas b4 .. i hate the rev hungryness.... just no fun.[HR][/HR]​
VW has one for the Euro MK4 ATF 4 cyl 2L, A measly 5hp and 5lb/ft gain (120hp 130lb/ft). Compared to the AQY 2L which makes 115hp 125lb/ft. Woo hoo! Its called Flino, runs out of steam after 6000rpm.


[Modified by Eric D, 11:05 PM 11-26-2001]
Re: VVT for VR6 (usdm)

how is this done?
an old trick on the old v8's was to have bleed down tappet blocks. At lower rpms they would bleed down and increase the intake velocity of the air into the cylinder and the engines torque. At higher rpm's they would pump back up agian.
Is this similar to what this system is? Is it individually controlled tappet blocks?
Jules
Re: VVT for VR6 (1BadAzzVR6)

Not sure if this will be faster than the H cars, but I think more driver friendly, and a bit more fuel efficient in its current form.
Re: VVT for VR6 (EuroTrash2)

I guesstimate about 200.00 more, or thereabouts. If you requested the mailing, you will see what I mean.
Re: VVT for VR6 (jcorallo)

It's not a leak down system. I think one of the other big tuner companies tried that but did not get any productive results.
Re: VVT for VR6 (EuroTrash2)

quote:[HR][/HR]1BasAzzVR6, VW already has some kind of varable timing on new 24V VR6's if I remeber correctly and it didn't seem to be much of a performance gadget. Using the ricey hp/L argument 24V is still not very impressive- 71 hp/L. It's good power output when comparing it to Audis V6 or Eclipses V6, but the VW variable system it self is nothing to brag about when compered to VTEC and the like. It would be nice to see 24V VR6 pump out around 260-280hp NA stock, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
[HR][/HR]​
I haven't really followed the 24v VR6, so I personally have no reference. After doing some reaearch, I will admit that VTEC is good for what is does, but it is complicated, costly, and until just recently with the I VTEC system, still had very little low end torque to speak of. The VW motors tend to be a bit more torquey, so that is a plus to begin with. But consider the possibility of running a more aggressive cam- one that you could not normally drive with on the street, and still retain decent bottom end, and get the top end pull when you wanted. This is along the lines of what we're working on introducing. Not the sam as VTEC, or IVTEC, much simpler. and effective to boot. How well it will work on the 12v is hard to say. We'll know once the testing starts in full.
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Re: VVT for VR6 (usdm)

Would we need a special chip to go along with this modification?
Re: VVT for VR6 (usdm)

Howdy, call me a skeptic, but how do you plan to make this work on a car that has two cams that control both intake and exhaust valves on two banks of cylinders. At best you would be able to control the actual timing between the crank and both sets of cams, but not control the relationship between them (would be bad).
With the way the cams are designed you would also not be able to alter the relationship between the opening on the intake and exhaust valves as you would on a normal twin cam motor.
So, with that said, all the gains would be had by changing the static cam timing a tiny bit to help idle and low end torque, and changing it again centerfugually (or some other way) to gain back your cam timing up high?
Just wondering and all
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Re: VVT for VR6 (need_a_VR6)

I subscribed. Looks like they have some sort of replacement intake valve with moving parts. Looks good in theory, unsure about durability. I'll post more when I do more than skim the document.
Re: VVT for VR6 (usdm)

quote:[HR][/HR] I haven't really followed the 24v VR6, so I personally have no reference. After doing some reaearch, I will admit that VTEC is good for what is does, but it is complicated, costly, and until just recently with the I VTEC system, still had very little low end torque to speak of. The VW motors tend to be a bit more torquey, so that is a plus to begin with. But consider the possibility of running a more aggressive cam- one that you could not normally drive with on the street, and still retain decent bottom end, and get the top end pull when you wanted. This is along the lines of what we're working on introducing. Not the sam as VTEC, or IVTEC, much simpler. and effective to boot. How well it will work on the 12v is hard to say. We'll know once the testing starts in full. [HR][/HR]​
I wasn't comparing your thing to VTEC. I was just making BadAzz aware that VW already has varible timing of some sort and it ain't much comparing to VTEC. As far as what you're trying to do I'm still slightly confused as to details on how it'll work. Something along the lines of what need_a_VR6 asked. I read your expalnation to it on 2.0L forum, but I'm not too good with mechanics and how engine works exactly. But if you come up with something that improves power along the whole range, emissions and economy and it really works I'll be in line to get it when I go with cams and MK4 head gasket.
And about those biaches that are trying to fuk with you, don't sweat it. If you make something that works, it'll sell. And those punks will probably want to become your distributors once that happens.
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Re: VVT for VR6 (need_a_VR6)

quote:[HR][/HR].... how do you plan to make this work on a car that has two cams that control both intake and exhaust valves on two banks of cylinders. [HR][/HR]​
The change does not occur at the cam, it occurs at the valve. Feel free to join the email list and you can see for yourself what I am talking about.
Re: VVT for VR6 (FatSean)

quote:[HR][/HR]I subscribed. Looks like they have some sort of replacement intake valve with moving parts. Looks good in theory, unsure about durability. I'll post more when I do more than skim the document.[HR][/HR]​

Take your time. Read it through. If you still have questions feel free to contact me.
Re: VVT for VR6 (EuroTrash2)

quote:[HR][/HR].....I was just making BadAzz aware that VW already has varible timing of some sort and it ain't much comparing to VTEC....[HR][/HR]​
No problem, just a misunderstanding. I was just throwing out some stuff in the mix. It wasn' really directed at you.
What I posted on the 2.0L forum is not what you would need to draw a conclusion. The thread is there to see if there is genuine interest, and now I see that there is. I would encourage you to join the mailing list and you can get the emails regarding this. I think it will help explain what is involved.
As for my "friends", they're still out there making trouble. It's alright, though. Hopefully when this is all done, I will be happy to give them a "special" wholesale discount.
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