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That last part is hitting it on the head. They look through old glasses. The reality of VW is long and terrible, the Routan, problem plagued Touareg, the tiny and expensive Tiguan, the decontented Passat and Jetta, the emissions scandal, the Passat left to die and get stale, the new Jetta that got even uglier and consumers complaining about the same problems they had ten years ago.

I get that many people dig their Beetles, Rabbits, old Golfs, but some bad stuff happened after that
After that? I think you have rose colored glasses of VW's glorious past. They weren't exactly great back then. My A1 GTI sunroof blew out of the car onto the highway and drivers side door handle broke off in my hand first year. A2 GTI oil leak and loose engine mounts first 2 weeks, engine broke free and made imprint in the hood. . A3 GTI was solid. VR6 Corrado was a beautiful mess. Bad fuel pump from the factory, rear wing failed 4 times, head gasket leak, hvac controls failed, fog lights would spontaneously explode for no reason, and failed water pump first 2 years. God I loved that car. The lift throttle oversteer was glorious. It was reliable compared to my Cyclone. I typically 2 cars every 18 months or so since the late 80's and 3 cars ever 18 months or so last 9 years, so I've dealt with a bunch of cars over the last 30 years.

2 recent VW's have been solid.

The reality is, almost every modern car sold today is more reliable than VAG cars of the 80's and 90's, no matter where they are on that list, including new VW's. And imagine how ****ty life would be if we all drove Toyota Camrys.





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Agree

After that? I think you have rose colored glasses of VW's glorious past. They weren't exactly great back then. My A1 GTI sunroof blew out of the car onto the highway and drivers side door handle broke off in my hand first year. A2 GTI oil leak and loose engine mounts first 2 weeks, engine broke free and made imprint in the hood. . A3 GTI was solid. VR6 Corrado was a beautiful mess. Bad fuel pump from the factory, rear wing failed 4 times, head gasket leak, hvac controls failed, fog lights would spontaneously explode for no reason, and failed water pump first 2 years. God I loved that car. The lift throttle oversteer was glorious. It was reliable compared to my Cyclone. I typically 2 cars every 18 months or so since the late 80's and 3 cars ever 18 months or so last 9 years, so I've dealt with a bunch of cars over the last 30 years.

2 recent VW's have been solid.

The reality is, almost every modern car sold today is more reliable than VAG cars of the 80's and 90's, no matter where they are on that list, including new VW's. And imagine how ****ty life would be if we all drove Toyota Camrys.





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Oh we agree, I wasn't saying older VWs were more reliable, I'm saying people who had them and loved them, but what's been offered from VW for the last decade or so has nothing to do with the nostalgia they have.

Again, the inability to tolerate someone sharing bad experiences or that they don't like a product is odd, they're taking it personal. It's a car and they're not VW and people have just as much right to perspectives, opinions and experiences.

As I stated IMO, in our market the competition grew with the rise of the Korean brands and the Asian brands marched on doing what they do best. Even they lose customers when they produce crap, there's too many options to suffer with ine brand that burned you.

And honestly, even VW fans admit the missteps the company has made, the biggest being diesel gate, the other was having the wrong product mix to decontenting the Passat and Jetta, leaving the Passat to stale on the lot and experiencing problems with the old lineup and then having that carry over to the Atlas and Tiguan.
 

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To be fair, when VW cheapened the **** out of the Jetta/Passat sales surged. I think they both doubled for the 2012 model year. Passat sales fell off but Jetta sales remained pretty strong, and I'd bet VW made tons of profit on them.

Just weird because it seems like much of the reason to buy a VW over the competition was lost in the process. Especially now with much of the competition up a generation.
 

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I'll say the same to you JS79, I don't identify you with the company and neither should you. Some people love and have had greart service from VW and I think that's awesome :thumbup:

But as with any product things can and do go wrong and people will for sure let companies know when it happens.

As far as the ratings, the issue is that there's so much competition now.

You read a post from a consumer here that states they've had two or three major things go wrong and they're done. People are less prone to put up with mess because there's so many other choices you don't have too.
Ah, so you're one of those dudes. Get behind in an argument so that means the other guy is a defensive emotional wreck who is taking everything too personally.

Nope. Sorry sir. You lose.
 

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True

Ah, so you're one of those dudes. Get behind in an argument so that means the other guy is a defensive emotional wreck who is taking everything too personally.

Nope. Sorry sir. You lose.
Behind in what?

If somebody reports a negative experience that they had with a VW product and it bothers you this much then yeah, you're taking it way too personal.

It's a thread about VW falling on a reliability ranking, what were you expecting to read here?

I'm just saying that in no way should you get defensive about people expressing displeasure with a car company. Especially one that has earned its marks.

And again, IMO the shear amount of competitors in our market with so many models, all brands are under the gun now. None are perfect or immune from scrutiny. People vote with their dollars for what they like and communicate displeasure in surveys for what they don't.

Another thing is people have less brand loyalty today, that adds to the fluctuations you see in these polls too. People with an emotional connection with a brand may be more forgiving but for the majority of people, they won't tolerate these el of issues we did decades ago, especially when there's other vehicles available that fare better.
 

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Oh we agree, I wasn't saying older VWs were more reliable, I'm saying people who had them and loved them, but what's been offered from VW for the last decade or so has nothing to do with the nostalgia they have.

Again, the inability to tolerate someone sharing bad experiences or that they don't like a product is odd, they're taking it personal. It's a car and they're not VW and people have just as much right to perspectives, opinions and experiences.

As I stated IMO, in our market the competition grew with the rise of the Korean brands and the Asian brands marched on doing what they do best. Even they lose customers when they produce crap, there's too many options to suffer with ine brand that burned you.

And honestly, even VW fans admit the missteps the company has made, the biggest being diesel gate, the other was having the wrong product mix to decontenting the Passat and Jetta, leaving the Passat to stale on the lot and experiencing problems with the old lineup and then having that carry over to the Atlas and Tiguan.
I literally just shared my bad experiences with VW's.

I'd agree that VW's SUV's are terrible, but the Golf, Jetta, GTI, and GLI are all good cars.

Objectively modem VW's are better than they've ever been in both reliably and performance, whether they're better objectively against competitors is a different story and whether they're subjectively better compared to old ones or against their competitors is too. I'd venture to guess the worst rates brand today would rate near the top 30 years ago.

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Discussion Starter #87
I literally just shared my bad experiences with VW's.

I'd agree that VW's SUV's are terrible, but the Golf, Jetta, GTI, and GLI are all good cars.

Objectively modem VW's are better than they've ever been in both reliably and performance, whether they're better objectively against competitors is a different story and whether they're subjectively better compared to old ones or against their competitors is too. I'd venture to guess the worst rates brand today would rate near the top 30 years ago.

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I really do not see why someone would want a VW SUV they just seem like blah to me, nothing special they look like a Ford Escape and Explorer. However, I am no fan of SUVs anyway. VWs biggest problem to me is the unreliable automatic transmissions. It would not be that bad if they weren't over 5 grand to fix/replace. Stuff like this would make people go elsewhere. I mean the Koreans for Godsakes have a better warranty and quality now than VW. How did this happen? Once we got a taste of Japanese reliability it is hard to return to the old days of flawed products.
 

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Agree

I literally just shared my bad experiences with VW's.

I'd agree that VW's SUV's are terrible, but the Golf, Jetta, GTI, and GLI are all good cars.

Objectively modem VW's are better than they've ever been in both reliably and performance, whether they're better objectively against competitors is a different story and whether they're subjectively better compared to old ones or against their competitors is too. I'd venture to guess the worst rates brand today would rate near the top 30 years ago.

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You're objective and that's a person you can have a conversation with :thumbup:

VW against the competition today is what the OP is about and yeah, consumers today are more critical and less apathetic about brands.

I agree that the worst vehicles today would be stellar vehicles 30 years ago but as we advanced the bar was raised substantially and a vehicle that is just half as bad as that one decades ago is considered terrible because cars today are just that much better. VW doesn't get a mulligan, they're graded harshly like the rest.

In another thread there is talk of Buick is discontinuing the Regal. The fight for your dollars in our market is strong, the weak will get weeded out. Again, the bar is much higher, companies that let prob8plauged vehicles hit the lot do so at their own peril.
 

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True

I really do not see why someone would want a VW SUV they just seem like blah to me, nothing special they look like a Ford Escape and Explorer. However, I am no fan of SUVs anyway. VWs biggest problem to me is the unreliable automatic transmissions. It would not be that bad if they weren't over 5 grand to fix/replace. Stuff like this would make people go elsewhere. I mean the Koreans for Godsakes have a better warranty and quality now than VW. How did this happen? Once we got a taste of Japanese reliability it is hard to return to the old days of flawed products.
I think Ford would have discontinued the Fiesta eventually because the market isn't demanding small cars, but Ford's terrible automatic transmissions hastened the withdrawal for sure.

Chevy and Ford lost the car wars for a reason, people has so many other options that were overall better vehicles, more reliable with better resale value.

Again it's not personal, it's just business. If you're not selling vehicles in our US market that sold 17 million units last year you're not doing something right.
 

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You're objective and that's a person you can have a conversation with

VW against the competition today is what the OP is about and yeah, consumers today are more critical and less apathetic about brands.

I agree that the worst vehicles today would be stellar vehicles 30 years ago but as we advanced the bar was raised substantially and a vehicle that is just half as bad as that one decades ago is considered terrible because cars today are just that much better. VW doesn't get a mulligan, they're graded harshly like the rest.

In another thread there is talk of Buick is discontinuing the Regal. The fight for your dollars in our market is strong, the weak will get weeded out. Again, the bar is much higher, companies that let prob8plauged vehicles hit the lot do so at their own peril.
Oh, I'm not objective. I've bought some of the objectively least reliable cars in history just because I feel in love with them. I'm a complete and utter moron. I drive a GTI, with a manual transmission no less, and I'm modding it. I need my head examined. I'd be better off lighting money on fire to stay warm.

But at least I don't drive a Tiguan or Atlas.

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Anyway am done, you have some anti VW agenda on this site and US superiority complex as well.
You know why there's such a vocal anti-VW sentiment in TCL? Because so many of us are former VW owners, and we were burned. You can always stick to the Emkay forums if you want your bias validated. :beer:
 

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Ha!

Oh, I'm not objective. I've bought some of the objectively least reliable cars in history just because I feel in love with them. I'm a complete and utter moron. I drive a GTI, with a manual transmission no less, and I'm modding it. I need my head examined. I'd be better off lighting money on fire to stay warm.

But at least I don't drive a Tiguan or Atlas.

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Awesome :laugh::thumbup:
 

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You know why there's such a vocal anti-VW sentiment in TCL? Because so many of us are former VW owners, and we were burned. You can always stick to the Emkay forums if you want your bias validated. :beer:
Can confirm, former VW owner here. My Dodge has been 1000% more reliable than the VW I owned. :laugh:
 

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I’m not anti-VW. I don’t hate them or want them to fail. I’m frustrated because I want them to be better. I follow their threads because sometimes they offer compelling products and I’m curious.

There was an old adage that went, “If you want a car that’s boring to drive and boring to look at but starts 100% of the time, get a Toyota. If you want a car that’s fun to drive and nice to look at but only starts 90% of the time, get a VW.”

When it comes to reliability, ease of maintenance and cost of ownership, I want them to be more like Toyota.
 

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It took 17 years for me to come back to VW, and it was only because the GTI is a compelling package and the 6/72 warranty.

If I was smart, I'd have waited for a couple years and bought an FA powered STI when they come out or a VN, but I don't regret buying the GTI. It really is a great all around package.

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Behind in what?

If somebody reports a negative experience that they had with a VW product and it bothers you this much then yeah, you're taking it way too personal.

It's a thread about VW falling on a reliability ranking, what were you expecting to read here?

I'm just saying that in no way should you get defensive about people expressing displeasure with a car company. Especially one that has earned its marks.

And again, IMO the shear amount of competitors in our market with so many models, all brands are under the gun now. None are perfect or immune from scrutiny. People vote with their dollars for what they like and communicate displeasure in surveys for what they don't.

Another thing is people have less brand loyalty today, that adds to the fluctuations you see in these polls too. People with an emotional connection with a brand may be more forgiving but for the majority of people, they won't tolerate these el of issues we did decades ago, especially when there's other vehicles available that fare better.
Ha, I post two sales figures refuting your claim of poor market performance over the last 20 years, and you keep writing dissertations. That sir, is being behind.
 

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I know SO MANY PEOPLE that owned ONE VW, just one. That's all it took to swear them off the brand. This has been going on for decades.
*Raises Hand*

Completely agree.

Between my previous MK5 Jetta GLI, my wife's New Beetle Convertible 2.5, and my in-laws 2 different New Beetles (TDI and a 2.0l) & 1 MK4 Golf 2.0 owned by my sister in-law we've all seen enough to know that there will never be another VW key in any of our houses.

Those 5 cars essentially put our indy VW mechanic's kids through college. I'm even disregarding all the things that were fixed under warranty. Like spoorin said above this isn't anything new.
 

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*Raises Hand*

Completely agree.

Between my previous MK5 Jetta GLI, my wife's New Beetle Convertible 2.5, and my in-laws 2 different New Beetles (TDI and a 2.0l) & 1 MK4 Golf 2.0 owned by my sister in-law we've all seen enough to know that there will never be another VW key in any of our houses.

Those 5 cars essentially put our indy VW mechanic's kids through college. I'm even disregarding all the things that were fixed under warranty. Like spoorin said above this isn't anything new.
My boss's husband has an Atlas they ordered and it has spent an outrageous amount of time in the shop for all sorts of random things such as faulty wiring, issues with the 2nd row captains chairs, leaking sunroof, and a few other things. It's borderline lemon status and although they're going to hand onto it for the duration of the warranty they've already stated this is their first/last VW product.

They traded in a 9 year old Buick Enclave that they loved for the Atlas too.
 
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