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Sorry but this car sucks and if the masses buy it, it's because they're ignorant. The Ionic 5 and Mach-E are just better, across the aboard.

"It's cheaper" doesn't hold water with me. $2,000 cheaper isn't really cheaper at $40,000 especially when you're getting less for that money.

If anyone has driven these cars, it wouldn't be a question. I was in the Mach-E and the ID.4 back to back and the Mach-E was like a super car and the ID.4 felt like a ****ty SUV with ****ty infotainment.
I can't live with the Ford-isms and Mustang-isms of the Mach-e, but that's an opinion. See below for more factual issues.

Again if VW's only calling card is it's cheaper than the competition, then that doesn't bode well for sales. This isn't quicker, doesn't have better range, doesn't handle better, doesn't have a more premium interior, doesn't have a better UI, or media system, is clearly decontented vs competitors, etc, etc.
I'll address more of the 'clearly decontented vs competitors' more separately, but you can see below that it's not 'decontented' in a base-for-base comparison with the Mach-e.

There's been some comments about how one should just pay more $ and get the Mach-e instead of the ID.4. I wanted to make a factual comparison as to why I disagree, not opinions/personal preferences.

A lot of the argument against the ID.4 is based on the infotainment software. Currently the ID.4 has version 2.1 of the software. Version 2.3 is being released as an over-the-air update soon, which is supposed to have improvements to the interface speed and menu layout. A more significant version 3.0 is also rumoured for later in the year, as apparently VW has said they will release updates approximately every 3 months. While you shouldn't buy a (car, phone, camera, etc.) based on promises of firmware upgrades that might not ever happen, all indications are that the speed and UI issues are being taken seriously.

This is the comparison of key features between the base Mach-e 'Select' and the base ID.4 'Pro', obviously not everything is listed but I wanted to compare the advanced driver assistance and some other key points:

FeatureMach-e 'Select'ID.4 'Pro'
Price before EV incentives4289539995
Destination fee11001195
Range (miles, EPA)230260
Heated front seatsOptionalStandard
Heated wheelOptionalStandard
Auto headlampsStandardStandard
Blind spot / cross-trafficStandardStandard
Parking sensorsStandardStandard
Lane keeping assistStandardStandard
Automatic emergency braking (high speed)StandardStandard
Automatic emergency braking (low speed)StandardStandard
Adaptive cruise / lane centeringStandardStandard
Navigation / CarPlay / AndroidAutoYes / Yes / YesYes / Yes / Yes
Voice commandStandardStandard
Wireless charging / USB-C1 / 1 front / 1 rear1 / 2 front / 2 rear
Ambient lightingN/AStandard
Keypad entryStandardN/A
ID Light' visual cues for navigation, etc.N/AStandard
Roof railsN/AStandard


Heated seats and heated wheel are a big deal in terms of energy efficiency for an EV. They are not in the base model Mach-e, and therefore increased use of the cabin heater will only make the Mach-e range deficit worse.

While a lot of the conversation in the ID.4 threads on here has been about HVAC controls, that's not the only thing that should inform your purchase decision. BOTH cars have ADAS features like advanced cruise and lane-centering/autosteer included as standard. This is something much more important to compare software performance on. It is completely unreasonable to dismiss the ID.4 and say that everyone should spend more money to get less range with the Mach-e based on minor details about the ID.4 HVAC controls.

In this ID.4 video, skip to 26:35 and see how it follows the lane markings perfectly. Then continue to 28:00 and watch Kyle demonstrate the reaction of the ID.4 autosteer system if the driver is incapacitated. If you ignore the alert to take over steering, it will beep at you to get your attention, pulse the brake pedal, then brake firmly to a full stop while putting on the hazards and honking the horn.


In this Mach-e video, skip to 36:30 and see how the Mach-e makes poor choices about following the lane markings and he describes how bright sun can cause it to react erratically. Then continue to 38:20 and watch Kyle demonstrate the reaction of the Mach-e autosteer system if the driver is incapacitated. It initially stays in the correct direction of travel as it follows the double-yellow line into a left-turn lane. If you ignore the alert to take over steering, it will beep at you to get your attention, then brake slowly to a near stop. It never fully stopped. Instead, it then accelerated to about 7 MPH straight ahead which, since it had followed the line into a turning lane, puts it driving into oncoming traffic. It never activated the hazards or honked the horn. This is completely unacceptable behaviour - it should have come to a complete stop. This can be fixed in software, but should never have made it to sale this way.


Also in that Mach-e video, skip to 9:35 where Kyle discusses the interaction of the regen braking and friction braking in 1-pedal mode. This is another strike against the Mach-e (that could also be fixed in software).

Dismissing the ID.4 as "this car sucks / buyers are ignorant" and lauding the Mach-e which has demonstrably more serious issues is itself an ignorant position. The ID.4 isn't perfect, but I'd pick it over the Mach-e based on price, range, charging curve, and tech, not even counting all the Ford-isms that I dislike about it. While I love the Ioniq 5 in theory... pricing hasn't been released for the US, the base model lacks features, and I'm certain it's not going to be price-competitive with the ID.4.
 

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I can't live with the Ford-isms and Mustang-isms of the Mach-e, but that's an opinion. See below for more factual issues.


I'll address more of the 'clearly decontented vs competitors' more separately, but you can see below that it's not 'decontented' in a base-for-base comparison with the Mach-e.

There's been some comments about how one should just pay more $ and get the Mach-e instead of the ID.4. I wanted to make a factual comparison as to why I disagree, not opinions/personal preferences.

A lot of the argument against the ID.4 is based on the infotainment software. Currently the ID.4 has version 2.1 of the software. Version 2.3 is being released as an over-the-air update soon, which is supposed to have improvements to the interface speed and menu layout. A more significant version 3.0 is also rumoured for later in the year, as apparently VW has said they will release updates approximately every 3 months. While you shouldn't buy a (car, phone, camera, etc.) based on promises of firmware upgrades that might not ever happen, all indications are that the speed and UI issues are being taken seriously.

This is the comparison of key features between the base Mach-e 'Select' and the base ID.4 'Pro', obviously not everything is listed but I wanted to compare the advanced driver assistance and some other key points:

FeatureMach-e 'Select'ID.4 'Pro'
Price before EV incentives4289539995
Destination fee11001195
Range (miles, EPA)230260
Heated front seatsOptionalStandard
Heated wheelOptionalStandard
Auto headlampsStandardStandard
Blind spot / cross-trafficStandardStandard
Parking sensorsStandardStandard
Lane keeping assistStandardStandard
Automatic emergency braking (high speed)StandardStandard
Automatic emergency braking (low speed)StandardStandard
Adaptive cruise / lane centeringStandardStandard
Navigation / CarPlay / AndroidAutoYes / Yes / YesYes / Yes / Yes
Voice commandStandardStandard
Wireless charging / USB-C1 / 1 front / 1 rear1 / 2 front / 2 rear
Ambient lightingN/AStandard
Keypad entryStandardN/A
ID Light' visual cues for navigation, etc.N/AStandard
Roof railsN/AStandard


Heated seats and heated wheel are a big deal in terms of energy efficiency for an EV. They are not in the base model Mach-e, and therefore increased use of the cabin heater will only make the Mach-e range deficit worse.

While a lot of the conversation in the ID.4 threads on here has been about HVAC controls, that's not the only thing that should inform your purchase decision. BOTH cars have ADAS features like advanced cruise and lane-centering/autosteer included as standard. This is something much more important to compare software performance on. It is completely unreasonable to dismiss the ID.4 and say that everyone should spend more money to get less range with the Mach-3 based on minor details about the ID.4 HVAC controls.

In this ID.4 video, skip to 26:35 and see how it follows the lane markings perfectly. Then continue to 28:00 and watch Kyle demonstrate the reaction of the ID.4 autosteer system if the driver is incapacitated. If you ignore the alert to take over steering, it will beep at you to get your attention, pulse the brake pedal, then brake firmly to a full stop while putting on the hazards and honking the horn.


In this Mach-e video, skip to 36:30 and see how the Mach-3 makes poor choices about following the lane markings and he describes how bright sun can cause it to react erratically. Then continue to 38:20 and watch Kyle demonstrate the reaction of the Mach-e autosteer system if the driver is incapacitated. It initially stays in the correct direction of travel as it follows the double-yellow line into a left-turn lane. If you ignore the alert to take over steering, it will beep at you to get your attention, then brake slowly to a near stop. It never fully stopped. Instead, it then accelerated to about 7 MPH straight ahead which, since it had followed the line into a turning lane, puts it driving into oncoming traffic. It never activated the hazards or honked the horn. This is completely unacceptable behaviour - it should have come to a complete stop. This can be fixed in software, but should never have made it to sale this way.


Also in that Mach-e video, skip to 9:35 where Kyle discusses the interaction of the regen braking and friction braking in 1-pedal mode. This is another strike against the Mach-e (that could also be fixed in software).

Dismissing the ID.4 as "this car sucks / buyers are ignorant" and lauding the Mach-e which has demonstrably more serious issues is itself an ignorant position. The ID.4 isn't perfect, but I'd pick it over the Mach-e based on price, range, charging curve, and tech, not even counting all the Ford-isms that I dislike about it. While I love the Ioniq 5 in theory... pricing hasn't been released for the US, the base model lacks features, and I'm certain it's not going to be price-competitive with the ID.4.
I love the out of spec review guy I just wish he would edit his ****ing videos. I don't think I've watched those two and you've taken the time to write an actual opnion you care about, will actually watch both those videos and respond later.
 

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I love the out of spec review guy I just wish he would get a haircut and some glasses that fit
He's owned and put massive miles on a bunch of Teslas, and says the ID.4 is the best EV value / best roadtrip vehicle. He can be annoying about a lot of things but his opinions are informed by actual experience.
 

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He's owned and put massive miles on a bunch of Teslas, and says the ID.4 is the best EV value / best roadtrip vehicle. He can be annoying about a lot of things but his opinions are informed by actual experience.
I skimmed the videos, they're long, he's long, edit your videos dude! I did watch some of his other ID.4 road trip videos in its entirety though before this (at 1.5x speed). So I guess the question I have for you is the same I have for everyone which is have you driven both? I can see how people have his opinion that "this is an important car for the future" type stuff and I don't even think it will fail on that front necessarily. I just think that if you put 10 people in a badgeless ID.4s and Mach-Es 6-9 of them will choose the Mach-E at their respective price points.

I didn't have that opinion before I drove them. In fact I expected to hate the ID.4, more! SYNC would cause me to just not use the infotainment system in its entirety for car trips. I didn't want that experience anymore. The ID.4 infotainment system I don't think would stop me from using it but I also didn't want to take that chance with how bad it still is + the fact that you have to use it for climate control. The other valid criticism I think of the ID.4, the drivetrain, doesn't bother me either to the point of not wanting to buy it, it's just it should be better.

Also, the Mach-E stuff, Ford is very clearly taking the full-OTA, everyone in beta test mode to stay competitive with Tesla. At least with the Mach-E I know Ford will actually make decent attempts to improve over time whereas with the ID.4 I think we can all expect the OTA updates to be minor. Who knows, maybe "minor" will be enough to make the infotainment, better, but so much of it is also the actual physical interfaces, the touch buttons, the capacities sliders. It just seems needlessly complicating the interface.

The Mach-E feels much better in person than the ID.4 does inside. The ID.4 doesn't feel bad, the Mach-E is just better. The ID.4 would be a great vehicle if the Mach-E and Ionic 5 / EV6 didn't exist but they do.

Edit: Honestly, I wish the ID.3 was here cause I'd probably have it over a Kona EV and be looking at the Ionic/Mach-E as the bigger vehicle for the fam. So really, I think people are taking my ID.4 hate as too much hate when really it's just that there are better options. I'm still a VW fanboy at heart.
 

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This moose test is performed at 77 km/h - hence the name km77. I don't know why that speed is chosen.

The ID.4's max speed at which it made a successful maneuver was 73 km/h. So it did not "pass". But that's true for many other SUVs. The new Tucson only managed 71 km/h
The Mach-E managed 71 km/h.

 

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I just sat in the ID.4 yesterday at my local VW dealership. It was OK I guess. Some of the controls weren't intuitive and, like many electric cars, involved change for the sake of change.
 

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I just sat in the ID.4 yesterday at my local VW dealership. It was OK I guess.
Seems to be the general consensus... The new ID.4. Incredibly okay.
 

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I saw my first ID.4 in Canada the other day, definitely did a double take. I don't know, but I actually like VW's understated styling this time around on something like this. Too bad that it's stupid expensive here and I'd much rather have an Mk8 R at that point.

And yeah, Ford tends to suck majorly when it comes to new infotainments and whatever else. It seems that the Mach-E has been a buggy nightmare.
 

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I saw my first ID.4 in Canada the other day, definitely did a double take. I don't know, but I actually like VW's understated styling this time around on something like this. Too bad that it's stupid expensive here and I'd much rather have an Mk8 R at that point.

And yeah, Ford tends to suck majorly when it comes to new infotainments and whatever else. It seems that the Mach-E has been a buggy nightmare.
So in the US, at least in my state it typically works out to be the same amount of car per dollar when considering incentives. I get $9500 total, if you apply that to an ID.4 that makes it actually a bit cheaper than an equivalent ICE SUV.

Then when you consider you're saving about $100 / mo. in gas if you put 10,000+ miles on your car.

It's much, much cheaper than an Mk 8 .:R
 

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I saw my first ID.4 in Canada the other day, definitely did a double take. I don't know, but I actually like VW's understated styling this time around on something like this. Too bad that it's stupid expensive here and I'd much rather have an Mk8 R at that point.

And yeah, Ford tends to suck majorly when it comes to new infotainments and whatever else. It seems that the Mach-E has been a buggy nightmare.
It's cheaper in Canada than in the US. It's also a lot cheaper than the Mustang. You can get the ID4 AWD for less the base RWD Mach-E.
 

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So in the US, at least in my state it typically works out to be the same amount of car per dollar when considering incentives. I get $9500 total, if you apply that to an ID.4 that makes it actually a bit cheaper than an equivalent ICE SUV.

Then when you consider you're saving about $100 / mo. in gas if you put 10,000+ miles on your car.

It's much, much cheaper than an Mk 8 .:R
The incentive here is $5000 and even then it equals out to about $64k for a fully loaded model. A fully loaded R is about $57k.

A bit of napkin math taking into account a 25,000 annual mileage and average price of premium of $1.5/litre comes out to a little over two years before you break even with the ID.4 premium. Not a huge amount of time but still something. And of course, charging is not completely free and I’m sure it’ll pick up in cost too

It's cheaper in Canada than in the US. It's also a lot cheaper than the Mustang. You can get the ID4 AWD for less the base RWD Mach-E.
Is it? Seemed to be about $39k starting vs. $44 in Canada or so.
 

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The incentive here is $5000 and even then it equals out to about $64k for a fully loaded model. A fully loaded R is about $57k
It depends on the province. In Quebec, you would get an additional $8k discount on the ID4.
 

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I saw one of these parked in front of me at the Starbucks this morning. I would say it looks much nicer in real life than in the pics.

For what it is, I don't think I'd spend more on this than I would on a Bolt EUV or Kona or something like that at the entry level though. I would be looking at Mach E or Ioniq 5 for a "mid-premium" crossover form factor EV.
 

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Yes that's earlier than I anticipated but who knows when final production will begin.
 

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Yes that's earlier than I anticipated but who knows when final production will begin.
If they're building pre-production units now then actual production isn't too far away. It may be slow at first (and almost certainly will be) but it'll be fairly soon. I was expecting the middle of next year, but it looks like it will be this year.

When did Passat production actually end?
 

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I wouldn't even compare the ID4 to a Mach-e. The Mach-e is a legitimately attractive looking family hauler, but it also costs more. The assisted driving doesn't fit my use case often enough to take into account.
 

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If they're building pre-production units now then actual production isn't too far away. It may be slow at first (and almost certainly will be) but it'll be fairly soon. I was expecting the middle of next year, but it looks like it will be this year.

When did Passat production actually end?
In the article, Keogh says full production is to begin next year
 
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