VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum banner
741 - 760 of 810 Posts

·
Registered
2011 SAAB 9-5 and 2016 Lincoln MKC
Joined
·
2,302 Posts
The Mach-E feels much better in person than the ID.4 does inside. The ID.4 doesn't feel bad, the Mach-E is just better. The ID.4 would be a great vehicle if the Mach-E and Ionic 5 / EV6 didn't exist but they do.
I agree. I have sat in both cars, and I had the opportunity to drive the Mach-E. The VW just came across as meh, but the Mach-E's interior was a nicer place to be, and I had an easier time figuring out the controls in the Ford. I somehow accidentally turned on the fan in the VW, and I gave up after 5 minutes trying to figure out how to turn it back off!

The exterior of the VW is pretty bland. It would have been cool if they did something with their past air-cooled heritage by having a smooth front panel, but instead they have a forgettable line connecting the headlights.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
8,922 Posts
I gotta say I'm intrigued by the AWD model. I'm just about the perfect customer for an EV; 14-mile round-trip commute (when we go back to the office), own my own home in an inner-ring suburb (i.e. close to most things). The list for Alfa replacements is getting wider, and while an EV SUV wasn't originally on the list, I think I owe it to myself to at least test drive one. And if I go that route, then I guess I should be looking at Teslas too.
 

·
Registered
A couple of CUVs
Joined
·
2,486 Posts
I gotta say I'm intrigued by the AWD model. I'm just about the perfect customer for an EV; 14-mile round-trip commute (when we go back to the office), own my own home in an inner-ring suburb (i.e. close to most things). The list for Alfa replacements is getting wider, and while an EV SUV wasn't originally on the list, I think I owe it to myself to at least test drive one. And if I go that route, then I guess I should be looking at Teslas too.
I've been intrigued by the AWD ID.4 since the original announcement and liked the RWD version enough in a test drive, but my current thought is that the Q4 e-tron has more appeal to me at a relatively small expected price premium. Say something like $55k vs $49k before incentives as equipped. Either way, I'm most looking forward to the Q6 and Macan coming out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46,105 Posts
I gotta say I'm intrigued by the AWD model. I'm just about the perfect customer for an EV; 14-mile round-trip commute (when we go back to the office), own my own home in an inner-ring suburb (i.e. close to most things). The list for Alfa replacements is getting wider, and while an EV SUV wasn't originally on the list, I think I owe it to myself to at least test drive one. And if I go that route, then I guess I should be looking at Teslas too.
If your commute is that short then an electric car makes less sense, as you don't burn as much gas and wouldn't need the range of modern electric cars - at least not for that part of car ownership. You could drive a gas guzzler and it would make little difference to your wallet and the environment.

If your commute was 30 miles one way then it would be much more beneficial financially speaking, and you could still go several days on one charge.
 

·
Registered
2013 MINI JCW, 2020 Bolt, 2002 Suburban 2500
Joined
·
19,564 Posts
If your commute is that short then an electric car makes less sense, as you don't burn as much gas and wouldn't need the range of modern electric cars - at least not for that part of car ownership.
Aren't short trips with little warm up still hard on gas engines? I usually use the Bolt for all the short trips and errand running because it would be hard on the MINI turbo motor to do those. With the Bolt, you don't have to worry about oil getting to temps or the turbo cooling down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42,807 Posts
If your commute is that short then an electric car makes less sense, as you don't burn as much gas and wouldn't need the range of modern electric cars - at least not for that part of car ownership.
its pretty easy to do the math, but assuming his trip is truly that short in an inner ring suburb, hed be getting worst case mileage in the ICE car, during a warmup. so youd be pretty far into the "city" side of the mpg for whatever he chose.
whats the city mpg for an equivalently ID4 sized gas suv?

the BEV wouldnt have that problem, would always be warm in winter, could run many days without any charging or partial top off w/o even needing an L2 setup at home, and would suffer no maintenance issues as a result of repeated short possibly-not-warmed-up trips.

youre right the mpg based payoff is pretty long with a 14 mile commute, but there could be other factors that could still make it a good choice. not necessarily the ID but any electric
plus, the cheapest thing would be buying the lowest priced used prius in your area and running it until the wheels fall off :D

The exterior of the VW is pretty bland. It would have been cool if they did something with their past air-cooled heritage by having a smooth front panel, but instead they have a forgettable line connecting the headlights.
theres quite a few running around here now that i see in traffic and i think the forgettable bland CUV looks work to its advantage if their goal was trying to get soccer moms and non car people over from a random other bland mainstream cross over, cute ute thing.
i imagine theyre saving some of that retro flair for the forth coming buzz.
 

·
Banned
Tesla Cat Nose
Joined
·
26,959 Posts
If your commute is that short then an electric car makes less sense, as you don't burn as much gas and wouldn't need the range of modern electric cars - at least not for that part of car ownership. You could drive a gas guzzler and it would make little difference to your wallet and the environment.

If your commute was 30 miles one way then it would be much more beneficial financially speaking, and you could still go several days on one charge.
But BEV's were designed for Joe in the city with a short commute.
 

·
Registered
'12 Mustang GT | '86 RX-7 | '20 Ninja 400
Joined
·
10,424 Posts
But BEV's were designed for Joe in the city with a short commute.
I would argue they are geared towards city owners with short commutes because of the limitation of the technology/infrastructure (up until recently at least), not as an original design premise.
 

·
Banned
Tesla Cat Nose
Joined
·
26,959 Posts
I would argue they are geared towards city owners with short commutes because of the limitation of the technology/infrastructure (up until recently at least), not as an original design premise.
It's getting better as time goes on. I heard that ID.4 sales in China were good last month.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
8,922 Posts
I would argue they are geared towards city owners with short commutes because of the limitation of the technology/infrastructure (up until recently at least), not as an original design premise.
One of the lousy things for me would be the Electrify America free charging - the two sites in my area are over 20 miles from my house and nowhere near my work. But if we were doing a long trip, we'd use the benefit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42,807 Posts
One of the lousy things for me would be the Electrify America free charging - the two sites in my area are over 20 miles from my house and nowhere near my work. But if we were doing a long trip, we'd use the benefit.
even if you stuck an extension cord under the garage door out to the driveway with such a short commute id wager youd rarely if ever need L2 charging if there was a day or so a week it could sit for 10+ hours on the extension cord.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48,222 Posts
Aren't short trips with little warm up still hard on gas engines? I usually use the Bolt for all the short trips and errand running because it would be hard on the MINI turbo motor to do those. With the Bolt, you don't have to worry about oil getting to temps or the turbo cooling down.
Only thing better for short trips with little or no cargo is my electric motorcycle.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
8,922 Posts
even if you stuck an extension cord under the garage door out to the driveway with such a short commute id wager youd rarely if ever need L2 charging if there was a day or so a week it could sit for 10+ hours on the extension cord.
...but free electric go-juice!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46,105 Posts
Aren't short trips with little warm up still hard on gas engines? I usually use the Bolt for all the short trips and errand running because it would be hard on the MINI turbo motor to do those. With the Bolt, you don't have to worry about oil getting to temps or the turbo cooling down.
You're not wrong, but if you're buying new the short trips aren't going to shorten the life of the car enough for most 1st owners to worry about.

its pretty easy to do the math, but assuming his trip is truly that short in an inner ring suburb, hed be getting worst case mileage in the ICE car, during a warmup. so youd be pretty far into the "city" side of the mpg for whatever he chose.
whats the city mpg for an equivalently ID4 sized gas suv?

the BEV wouldnt have that problem, would always be warm in winter, could run many days without any charging or partial top off w/o even needing an L2 setup at home, and would suffer no maintenance issues as a result of repeated short possibly-not-warmed-up trips.

youre right the mpg based payoff is pretty long with a 14 mile commute, but there could be other factors that could still make it a good choice. not necessarily the ID but any electric
plus, the cheapest thing would be buying the lowest priced used prius in your area and running it until the wheels fall off :D

theres quite a few running around here now that i see in traffic and i think the forgettable bland CUV looks work to its advantage if their goal was trying to get soccer moms and non car people over from a random other bland mainstream cross over, cute ute thing.
I imagine theyre saving some of that retro flair for the forthcoming buzz.
Oh, wants are always going to enter into it. There are plenty of reasons to want an electric car that have nothing to do with the bottom line. Heating/cooling/defrosting from your smartphone, not having to put gas in the car in winter/rain, instant torque, quiet operation, little maintenance, etc.

I should have stated that it is less beneficial on a short commute, not that it made "less sense". 🍺


I would argue they are geared towards city owners with short commutes because of the limitation of the technology/infrastructure (up until recently at least), not as an original design premise.
When electric cars had a roughly 100 mile range that was very much the limit. Modern 300 mile commuters can go several days without recharging (most commutes) and make short day trips without recharging/recharging at the destination only. That makes them much more useful than the early cars. I live in the 'burbs, but I'm 15 miles from work, so even an early one would work for me even though my commute is mostly highway. New ones? I could go a week, including errands, without charging.

For anything but road trips I simply wouldn't use the phrase "limitation of the technology".
 

·
Registered
'12 Mustang GT | '86 RX-7 | '20 Ninja 400
Joined
·
10,424 Posts
When electric cars had a roughly 100 mile range that was very much the limit. Modern 300 mile commuters can go several days without recharging (most commutes) and make short day trips without recharging/recharging at the destination only. That makes them much more useful than the early cars. I live in the 'burbs, but I'm 15 miles from work, so even an early one would work for me even though my commute is mostly highway. New ones? I could go a week, including errands, without charging.

For anything but road trips I simply wouldn't use the phrase "limitation of the technology".
I think you misunderstood my post. Syntrix was arguing BEVs are designed specifically for city slickers. My argument was that it's not that they were designed specifically for city slickers, but that it was just a consequence of the capabilities/limitation of the cars (at the time that BEVs started to become readily available, like the LEAF).

These days, they are definitely capable of doing normal car stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46,105 Posts
I think you misunderstood my post. Syntrix was arguing BEVs are designed specifically for city slickers. My argument was that it's not that they were designed specifically for city slickers, but that it was just a consequence of the capabilities/limitation of the cars (at the time that BEVs started to become readily available, like the LEAF).

These days, they are definitely capable of doing normal car stuff.
Gotcha. 🍺
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48,222 Posts
You're not wrong, but if you're buying new the short trips aren't going to shorten the life of the car enough for most 1st owners to worry about.
Not just hard on the motor/transmission but also not being able to get up to operating temperature for half the trip must add heavily to emissions and shorten the life of emissions equipment? I take an almost daily trip to a UPS store for our mail and to make shipments for our business. It is only 1.1 miles away through one long traffic light. Not much of a warmup for an ICE vehicle.
 
741 - 760 of 810 Posts
Top