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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Earlier today, Herbert Diess, VAG’s Chairman of the Board of Management, used LinkedIn to share his speech during the presentation of the so-called New Auto strategy. Hidden on page 10 of the file is the confirmation that the Volkswagen brand will launch a new Atlas-sized battery-powered sports utility vehicle. Dubbed the ID.8, the vehicle will most likely be based on the MEB platform but it’s probably too early for VW to provide more details.
With the new large, likely three-row, electric vehicle, Volkswagen wants to expand its ID family of EVs. The first ID model was the ID.3 as the modern-day, zero-emission Golf equivalent, followed by the ID.4 roughly the size of today’s Tiguan. With the ID.6, Volkswagen says, it has a model that’s the equivalent to the Passat in terms of dimensions and the ID.8 should become the largest available ID vehicle.

One interesting point made during the same event was that Volkswagen sees the ID.6, which is basically an extended ID.4 with three rows of seats, as a replacement for the Passat. This makes us wonder what plans the automaker has for the production version of the ID Vizzion- that is a much more Passat-like electric model, yet it is not mentioned here, even though it seems like the logical choice.
 

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2014 Mazda3 Sport 2.0 6MT / 2001 Mazda Miata 1.8 6MT
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i might just sell the miata for this

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
 

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Krautgeist AWD boostballsJBG
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To the east of me the major metro area is 180 miles away and there's all of 2 fast chargers on the way, to the west it's 400 miles to the nearest fast charger... And I like long drives in the middle of nowhere. Looks like VW and many other automakers have forgotten that rural folks like me have no use for their electric cars...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
To the east of me the major metro area is 180 miles away and there's all of 2 fast chargers on the way, to the west it's 400 miles to the nearest fast charger... And I like long drives in the middle of nowhere. Looks like VW and many other automakers have forgotten that rural folks like me have no use for their electric cars...
Could you not charge at home?
Also, I don’t see any immediate plans for VW to stop selling the Atlas, Tiguan, or Talos. Well, you’ve got at least 10 years, to still buy those ICE CUVs. In that time, however, I suspect the EV infrastructure to be built out significantly. If it’s not, in your area, then shame on your local politicians and the ones you elect to send to the federal government. All the car companies have announced their impending switch to EV propulsion, by now. If your local representatives are still burying their heads in the sand and hoping for a return to the days of leaded gasoline and unfiltered cigarettes, they are failing their constituents.
 

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Krautgeist AWD boostballsJBG
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To the east of me the major metro area is 180 miles away and there's all of 2 fast chargers on the way, to the west it's 400 miles to the nearest fast charger... And I like long drives in the middle of nowhere. Looks like VW and many other automakers have forgotten that rural folks like me have no use for their electric cars...
But everyone is buzzing about them.
Tesla owners are snobbier than ever about them.
Just charge overnight in your garage.
Let's twist your arm, because you want one.

I'm sure I've missed a few. But the id.4's overfloweth on the dealer lots.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
But everyone is buzzing about them.
Tesla owners are snobbier than ever about them.
Just charge overnight in your garage.
Let's twist your arm, because you want one.

I'm sure I've missed a few. But the id.4's overfloweth on the dealer lots.
We’ll have used ICE cars for generations. Stop with the drama. If the big OEMs stop selling ICE cars in 2040, you’ll still be able to buy a reasonable one for another 20+ years. The refueling infrastructure might eventually become scarce, but if you start planning today (2021), you should be ready by the time the last gas station is shuttered in 2055.

Regarding the ID.4 and its alleged glut on dealer’s lots, I wonder if their decision to initially launch a CUV only in RWD is impacting sales? The US and Canada are largely countries that see significant snowfall. Selling a RWD only CUV seems to defeat one the purposes for buying a CUV. The Mustang Mach E launched in both RWD and AWD, and doesn’t appear to have the same sales issues as the ID.4.
 

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If only EV adoption were so easy...

I can charge at home, no problem, got 220V in the shop. But while most of the EVs have a 300 mile range from 100% to zero charge, if you want that expensive battery to last you don't charge past 80% and run it down below 20%. That leaves me 60% of capacity for a 180 range on a perfect spring day. But this is the Buffalo Ridge in southwest Minnesota where winters are brutal and windy, so cut that range in half for bucking headwinds in January. That cuts range to 90 miles when new, and less as the battery ages- It's 20 miles to the nearest WalMart, etc. and 70 miles to Costco and neither has chargers. And with the MSP metro 180 miles away, how am I supposed to make it even with a midway charger when on a winter day my range is down to 90 miles?

Face reality, meaningful adoption of 'lectric cars in rural America is decades away.
 

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Krautgeist AWD boostballsJBG
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Could you not charge at home?
Also, I don’t see any immediate plans for VW to stop selling the Atlas, Tiguan, or Talos. Well, you’ve got at least 10 years, to still buy those ICE CUVs. In that time, however, I suspect the EV infrastructure to be built out significantly. If it’s not, in your area, then shame on your local politicians and the ones you elect to send to the federal government. All the car companies have announced their impending switch to EV propulsion, by now. If your local representatives are still burying their heads in the sand and hoping for a return to the days of leaded gasoline and unfiltered cigarettes, they are failing their constituents.
OMG stop with the drama!
 

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Krautgeist AWD boostballsJBG
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If only EV adoption were so easy...

I can charge at home, no problem, got 220V in the shop. But while most of the EVs have a 300 mile range from 100% to zero charge, if you want that expensive battery to last you don't charge past 80% and run it down below 20%. That leaves me 60% of capacity for a 180 range on a perfect spring day. But this is the Buffalo Ridge in southwest Minnesota where winters are brutal and windy, so cut that range in half for bucking headwinds in January. That cuts range to 90 miles when new, and less as the battery ages- It's 20 miles to the nearest WalMart, etc. and 70 miles to Costco and neither has chargers. And with the MSP metro 180 miles away, how am I supposed to make it even with a midway charger when on a winter day my range is down to 90 miles?

Face reality, meaningful adoption of 'lectric cars in rural America is decades away.

But nobody wants to hear this. They think that electric vehicles are golden eggs, but they aren't. Not even close at this time.

Most people don't get the 20/80%, but this care and proof has been in the model industry for years, so there's plenty of data on it. The analogy I use is to compare the "list" cost of a golf-e battery new, it's much more than a working golf-e. Most owners won't even understand what "storage voltage" means, and will leave the car sit for 6-12 months at a time. It's easier to replace a 12v car battery than it is to replace a $30k battery pack.
 

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If only EV adoption were so easy...

I can charge at home, no problem, got 220V in the shop. But while most of the EVs have a 300 mile range from 100% to zero charge, if you want that expensive battery to last you don't charge past 80% and run it down below 20%. That leaves me 60% of capacity for a 180 range on a perfect spring day. But this is the Buffalo Ridge in southwest Minnesota where winters are brutal and windy, so cut that range in half for bucking headwinds in January. That cuts range to 90 miles when new, and less as the battery ages- It's 20 miles to the nearest WalMart, etc. and 70 miles to Costco and neither has chargers. And with the MSP metro 180 miles away, how am I supposed to make it even with a midway charger when on a winter day my range is down to 90 miles?

Face reality, meaningful adoption of 'lectric cars in rural America is decades away.
You are being dramatic. You most certainly Can charge to 100% before a trip. Actually, you would only want to charge to about 98%, so that you still have regeneration as an option. The vehicle will go farther at 98% than 100% since regeneration will make it more efficient. Additionally, you can go below 20% as well. The first day that I had my car I went down to 10%. It’s not a big deal, and not some thing to hand wring over.

On days where you aren’t going on trips, you charge to 90% and never even think about the discharge percentage.
 

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"That's the problem" (as they say), we've actually honestly researched electric cars and found they won't work well for us. Back when GM was practically rebating Bolts down to half price I did the numbers and figured out they'd have to just about give me an electric car for it to save me money over an IC car. So if a $20k Bolt can't save me an money over a $20k IC car, how will a $40k ID4 save me any money?
 

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You are being dramatic. You most certainly Can charge to 100% before a trip. Actually, you would only want to charge to about 98%, so that you still have regeneration as an option. The vehicle will go farther at 98% than 100% since regeneration will make it more efficient. Additionally, you can go below 20% as well. The first day that I had my car I went down to 10%. It’s not a big deal, and not some thing to hand wring over.

On days where you aren’t going on trips, you charge to 90% and never even think about the discharge percentage.
OK, so we say "screw battery life, we're gonna scrap this $50k electric car after 10 years anyway" and push the battery to it's limits. Still not enough range, unless you've got a Tesla which there's no support for out here. It's 400 miles to Rapid City and the best charger you'll find will be a 220V 50A socket at a campground= You're screwed!
 

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"That's the problem" (as they say), we've actually honestly researched electric cars and found they won't work well for us. Back when GM was practically rebating Bolts down to half price I did the numbers and figured out they'd have to just about give me an electric car for it to save me money over an IC car. So if a $20k Bolt can't save me an money over a $20k IC car, how will a $40k ID4 save me any money?
Who told you it's the car's job to save you money?
 

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Krautgeist AWD boostballsJBG
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Who told you it's the car's job to save you money?

I'm not sure where this was mentioned. It wasn't. This thread has taken a turn towards reality.
 

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Be nice if it were enjoyable to drive too, and waiting for batteries to charge isn't my idea of fun.
I like the commercial where they mention sporty handling, then pan to a gti, then back to the id.4. Nobody would ever say an id.4 handles even close to a gti. Movie magic is powerful stuff. I wonder how the 8 and 6 will fare? Maybe Audi variants will compare to the RS lines in commercials.
 

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To the east of me the major metro area is 180 miles away and there's all of 2 fast chargers on the way, to the west it's 400 miles to the nearest fast charger... And I like long drives in the middle of nowhere. Looks like VW and many other automakers have forgotten that rural folks like me have no use for their electric cars...
The infrastructure is catching up quickly; there are at least 50% more L3 chargers between major metros here than there were when we bought our first EV in 2017.

So, this might not be the right time for you to buy an EV--yet--but the pace of infrastructure development will be rapid. (The question will be how to serve those charging points with sufficient upstream power, but there are a lot of near-term solutions for that as well, including far more local/regional generation as the price of solar and storage drops drastically.)

RE: Your point about charging--as more cars move to higher-voltage architecture, charging times will drop drastically. IIRC, it takes the Taycan with the largest battery ~20min to charge at a charger that can provide the max juice it'll take. That's slightly longer than it takes to fuel up my car + maybe running inside to grab some gum.

You've made it clear in this thread and many others that you'll never give up your TDI; that's good, because you won't have an option to buy anything else like it new. Some form of electric propulsion--whether it be hybrid or BEV--is the future. You don't have to be happy about it, but it's reality.
 
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