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Because we need IC engines to travel long distances to town, grow your food, and truck it to you.
You can do those things with EVs, including regional trucking in the near future.

The only time this becomes an issue for rural folk is if you have both extreme distance and extreme cold and I mean really cold, like -10F to -40F Northern Montana through Minnesota kind of cold and distance. If it weren't for these extreme cold climates they would work for almost anyone in the lower 48.

If you live in rural CA, you're just being stubborn.
 

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Should be easy- A lot of us small farmers already buy on road diesel for our tractors and deduct the fuel tax on our income tax return.
how will it be easy if on road diesel goes away and there is no mechanism to collect the now owed tax?

additionally, if diesel on road vehicles DID become outlawed, i highly doubt they would change the tax law to collect on road tax from you when running that fuel on road is illegal. there are also state and federal taxes to consider, so now you are hoping that both federal and state level taxes change to allow you to run off road diesel, on road... good luck with that.

never mind that they may just ban registering on road diesel vehicles completely as another way to circumvent the problem.

all of this however is moot, since its very unlikely to happen much less in your/our lifetime. diesels will just disappear from no longer being sold, not being worth or able to maintain, and future lack of fuel availability.
 

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Should be easy- A lot of us small farmers already buy on road diesel for our tractors and deduct the fuel tax on our income tax return.
being a farmer doesn't mean you can't use an EV. anyway, what kind of farming do you do that gives you so much free time during the day in the middle of the month of July

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Obviously you rural haters don't know much about farming.
You're just speaking in awfully big generalities without giving any specifics ma'am. I know a lot about rural driving in the US and I don't know of any rural person who couldn't make an EV work (and benefit from it) unless you have winters that get south of 10F for weeks on end.
 

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You're just speaking in awfully big generalities without giving any specifics ma'am. I know a lot about rural driving in the US and I don't know of any rural person who couldn't make an EV work (and benefit from it) unless you have winters that get south of 10F for weeks on end.
Can you do rural farming in your BEV?
 

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You're just speaking in awfully big generalities without giving any specifics ma'am. I know a lot about rural driving in the US and I don't know of any rural person who couldn't make an EV work (and benefit from it) unless you have winters that get south of 10F for weeks on end.
Yup, we get weather like that every fall.
 

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Yup, we get weather like that every fall.
I have in-laws in parts that get this cold in the west and they need to travel 2 hours to get to the closest Walmart and suffer -20F to -40F temperatures at times. These are literally the only people I've ever encountered in my life that couldn't get by on a large scale with EVs. So I could see if you're from a town of 2500 people in one of these extreme remote places, EVs not working for you.

But this is why I say it's exceedingly rare. It's also different than if you live in say Billings, MT and have 2 cars and don't have to do that traveling, at least a single EV would still probably work and benefit you.
 

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Your rural way of life is a threat to the environment and I shouldn't be forced to subsidise your self-indulgent, unsustainable lifestyle, but here we are.
Relax. There's a lot of very important industry in rural areas. And the further we get into decarbonization the less consumption is going to matter. No need to be so hostile

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Relax. There's a lot of very important industry in rural areas. And the further we get into decarbonization the less consumption is going to matter. No need to be so hostile

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I grew up on an iron ore mine in the rainforest, I get how stuff works, believe me. If you read the post I was responding too, my response is no more 'hostile' than OP's statement, just turned around. The problem is that a tiny minority of extremely-sparsely-populated-state dwellers have, by virtue of senatorial representation, disproportional influence on policy. The solution to the lack of charging infrastructure in those areas should be "build infrastructure", not to give up and whine that it's too hard/inconvenient/expensive and be obstructionist to the vast majority of people who will benefit from it, just because someone who lives two hours from their nearest shopping can't see past their own situation and votes accordingly.
 

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I grew up on an iron ore mine in the rainforest, I get how stuff works, believe me. If you read the post I was responding too, my response is no more 'hostile' than OP's statement, just turned around. The problem is that a tiny minority of extremely-sparsely-populated-state dwellers have, by virtue of senatorial representation, disproportional influence on policy. The solution to the lack of charging infrastructure in those areas should be "build infrastructure", not to give up and whine that it's too hard/inconvenient/expensive and be obstructionist to the vast majority of people who will benefit from it, just because someone who lives two hours from their nearest shopping can't see past their own situation and votes accordingly.
Why do you have to force this person to drive an EV? By the time these sale bans come into effect, EVs will dominate the market because they are better cars. There is no need to force everyone to buy an EV. There is not even a need to subsidize them beyond the standard tax breaks any manufacturing plant in the US gets.
 

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I grew up on an iron ore mine in the rainforest, I get how stuff works, believe me. If you read the post I was responding too, my response is no more 'hostile' than OP's statement, just turned around. The problem is that a tiny minority of extremely-sparsely-populated-state dwellers have, by virtue of senatorial representation, disproportional influence on policy. The solution to the lack of charging infrastructure in those areas should be "build infrastructure", not to give up and whine that it's too hard/inconvenient/expensive and be obstructionist to the vast majority of people who will benefit from it, just because someone who lives two hours from their nearest shopping can't see past their own situation and votes accordingly.
You guys are just in fight or flight mode talking past each other.

EVs will get to a place that they can work in cold and rural areas, but they aren't there yet. Thankfully we definitely have a few more decades of ICEVs, so @GearheadGrrrl's fears of the govt coming and taking her gas/diesel vehicles away are unfounded. Just a lot of stupid hyperbole and nonsense from both sides in pursuit of that self righteous dopamine hit. What exactly are you and her trying to achieve? It's definitely not any kind of productive conversation.
 

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I will say @OOOO-A3 there's a real chance you're wrong here. I spent a whole thread being ignored by actual Canadians on this specific issue. I do in fact have personal experience with places that EVs wouldn't work for which is why I argued so hard on that other thread about people in Alberta should be like, "really?" over EV mandates.

There are actual places in the United States where you are hours from your necessary errands and in those places where it also gets to be too cold for currently manufactured effective heat pumps, it would be difficult to the point of near impossibility to operate an EV.

I walk around and talk people into buying EVs and I would never recommend one for these places. You have like 2 choices of cars with heatpumps whose efficacy falls off to just as bad as a resistance heater below 25F.

Until these things are addressed there are a lot of people who should really be raising some eyebrows at the idea we're going to do this with currently availible and deployed technology or relying on as of yet invented technology to solve it.

Again, you're talking to someone who owns two 2021 EVs and I'm trying to tell you that there's a chance she's right. Also a chance she's latching on to a small population and making a scene but until she actually says where she lives you won't know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #178 ·
I will say @OOOO-A3 there's a real chance you're wrong here. I spent a whole thread being ignored by actual Canadians on this specific issue. I do in fact have personal experience with places that EVs wouldn't work for which is why I argued so hard on that other thread about people in Alberta should be like, "really?" over EV mandates.

There are actual places in the United States where you are hours from your necessary errands and in those places where it also gets to be too cold for currently manufactured effective heat pumps, it would be difficult to the point of near impossibility to operate an EV.

I walk around and talk people into buying EVs and I would never recommend one for these places. You have like 2 choices of cars with heatpumps whose efficacy falls off to just as bad as a resistance heater below 25F.

Until these things are addressed there are a lot of people who should really be raising some eyebrows at the idea we're going to do this with currently availible and deployed technology or relying on as of yet invented technology to solve it.

Again, you're talking to someone who owns two 2021 EVs and I'm trying to tell you that there's a chance she's right. Also a chance she's latching on to a small population and making a scene but until she actually says where she lives you won't know.
I believe they have said they live in Minnesota.
As far as I know, Minnesota has not issued any future ICE bans. The US also has not issued any blanket ICE bans, and given the dysfunction on the federal level, we will never have a unified and foresighted energy/EV policy. Ford has not committed to any dates for 100% BEV targets, instead Ford has spoken about achieving carbon-neutrality with its fleet. GM has published a date for 100% BEV adoption, but that might exclude commercial (farm, etc...) use vehicles. Stellantis (RAM) has adopted a BEVs for some and 4xe for others approach. This probably means rural farming communities will still have access to full-sized trucks and SUVs that will be somewhat fossil fuel powered.

Regarding concerns about EVs and cold weather, the Norwegian members of this forum have commented that EVs are running around just fine in Norway, in artic weather and 6 months of darkness.
Are there any parts of the Lower 48 or the inhabited parts of Canada that get colder than Norway?
 

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I believe they have said they live in Minnesota.
As far as I know, Minnesota has not issued any future ICE bans. The US also has not issued any blanket ICE bans, and given the dysfunction on the federal level, we will never have a unified and foresighted energy/EV policy. Ford has not committed to any dates for 100% BEV targets, instead Ford has spoken about achieving carbon-neutrality with its fleet. GM has published a date for 100% BEV adoption, but that might exclude commercial (farm, etc...) use vehicles. Stellantis (RAM) has adopted a BEVs for some and 4xe for others approach. This probably means rural farming communities will still have access to full-sized trucks and SUVs that will be somewhat fossil fuel powered.

Regarding concerns about EVs and cold weather, the Norwegian members of this forum have commented that EVs are running around just fine in Norway, in artic weather and 6 months of darkness.
Are there any parts of the Lower 48 or the inhabited parts of Canada that get colder than Norway?
She's probably being over-dramatic about the mandated switchover for sure, but if you're legit rural Minnesota and over an hour from places, it could be an issue. I think the more east you get the less of an issue it is but I'm ignorant enough about parts east of the Dakotas that I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. I even said "through Minnesota" cause I know climates don't end at a border so I just played it safe and included everything to the Great Lakes lol.

As for the Norwegians you should generally ignore what Europeans are doing as they have a legit different way their entire society is built. In Europe, which was primarily laid out pre-industrialization the focus is on the population centers meaning they have a lot more people in cities and towns than we do. This means the people who are living over an hour from a super market is much lower in comparison to North America whose society was built around industrial centers and sprawling civilian populations.

What's only a few people for them equates to 21% of the entire population here. The ven diagram of that 21% meeting prolonged sub-zero temperatures are going to be the places that have legit gripes against pushes to a sole EV world.
 

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Discussion Starter · #180 ·
I grew up on an iron ore mine in the rainforest, I get how stuff works, believe me. If you read the post I was responding too, my response is no more 'hostile' than OP's statement, just turned around. The problem is that a tiny minority of extremely-sparsely-populated-state dwellers have, by virtue of senatorial representation, disproportional influence on policy. The solution to the lack of charging infrastructure in those areas should be "build infrastructure", not to give up and whine that it's too hard/inconvenient/expensive and be obstructionist to the vast majority of people who will benefit from it, just because someone who lives two hours from their nearest shopping can't see past their own situation and votes accordingly.
I want to hear more about life as a child on an iron ore mine in the rainforest. Sounds like Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom.
I agree with all of your points. This is why Tesla (and others) have/will be building out their own EV infrastructure.
Getting a bit into the weeds of the political implications of obstructionism, these areas and states that refuse to be dragged into 22nd year of the 21st Century are seeing "brain drain" as their younger population flees to the coasts (or Texas or Chicago), in search of better jobs/opportunities. Modern infrastructure and basic humane civil rights are great things, and help to attract business investment and keep young people around.
 
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