[Bangusto87]

Ho all i have buyer a kit for replace the two upper and the 2 lower arms. I Need advice from some procedure for example a Bolt of the lower arms cant be removed because touch against the subframe i Need the dimension or the code of the spare for buy It in Advance in order to cut the old One.
And wath about the suspension Need to be removed for the upper arms i th8nk. Can i disconnect the air supply or before some Vcds procedure Is needed?? Im scared to do some wrong procedure. Thank in Advance

 

[Phaetal]

Place the car in Jack, break the wheel nuts and then lift the car off the ground on both sides. Use VCDS to drain the front shocks. Disconnect both batteries in the correct order. Disconnect the air line from the airshock to remove the remaining air and then I place the air line end into a small freezer bag to protect from contaminant. I also unclip the airline from the shocks and secure it out of the way. I’d then remove the height sensor off the lower arm and make sure its clear. Remove the plastic shroud from the engine bay to let you have access to the top of the shocks. Disconnect the connectors at the top of the shocks from the wiring connector.

The three top bolts, pinch bolt, bolt for the top arms are all dispose and replace bolts so you need new ones, this is because you torque them and then add a quarter turn to stretch them. Dont over torque the top bolts going into the top strut bracket as they are still into aluminum! Id watch a video on you tube on replacing air struts as when you tighten the top control arm bolt and the bottom arm bolt into the air strut you need to raise the suspension assembly so the centre of the hub is about 404 from the underneath of the wing before you torque those bolts up. There is also a torque order to the three top bolts.

Have a read on ELSA before you do anything, its quite involved but easily done if you take it slow.

 

[Phaetal]

I hasten to add that the suspension needs to be suspended on both sides to get the shock to clear the lower arm. Learnt that the hard way.

 

[Bangusto87]

Ok i dont have elsa.to rise the car no problem i have an old car lift and a lot of tool in my workshop im a car technisian but now i work in the forklift. How can i bleed the front suspension and recharge It After im scared. And whats the Bolt i Need to replace the lower arms chassis connection bolt

 

[Bangusto87]

Sorry for my maybe uncorrect english i do my best !!! Hello from italy

 

[Phaetal]

Elsa is available online - Elsa online. ElsaWin. ElsaWeb. VWRunning gearRunning gear; Axles; Steering; Front and four wheel driveSelf-levelling air spring systemRepairing self-levelling suspensionRemoving and installing air supply unit

You need VCDS to bleed the front shocks. The shocks will pressurize once you connect the batteries and start the car. Remember to no lower your car onto all four wheels until the system starts to pressurize. So you need to lower your ramp so the wheels are off the ground then pressurize the system so the car lifts off the ramp by raising the car off the ground.

 

[rmcclain54]

One other issue you may run into. Don't know the age of your car, but I had basically the same work done on my '04 v8 2 yrs ago and some of the bolts were completely frozen in the steering knuckle. My mechanic was completely unable to budge them no matter what he tried including impact tools. It's been said that sometimes even the hammer of Thor will fail at this. We had no choice but to replace the knuckles as well.

 

[robbie-rocket-pants]

Elsa is available online - Elsa online. ElsaWin. ElsaWeb. VWRunning gearRunning gear; Axles; Steering; Front and four wheel driveSelf-levelling air spring systemRepairing self-levelling suspensionRemoving and installing air supply unit

You need VCDS to bleed the front shocks. The shocks will pressurize once you connect the batteries and start the car. Remember to no lower your car onto all four wheels until the system starts to pressurize. So you need to lower your ramp so the wheels are off the ground then pressurize the system so the car lifts off the ramp by raising the car off the ground.

Your method to remove the strut is probably best, but just to note that you strictly don't need to depressurise it with VCDS.
My method was to put the suspension into Jack Mode then place the car on jack stands. If you then remove the air-line, it will depressurise the strut down to the minimum residual pressure.

Ho all i have buyer a kit for replace the two upper and the 2 lower arms. I Need advice from some procedure for example a Bolt of the lower arms cant be removed because touch against the subframe i Need the dimension or the code of the spare for buy It in Advance in order to cut the old One.
And wath about the suspension Need to be removed for the upper arms i th8nk. Can i disconnect the air supply or before some Vcds procedure Is needed?? Im scared to do some wrong procedure. Thank in Advance

That lower bolt that touches against the subframe - I cut the old bolt off and then put the new one in from the opposite side. It's just as safe.

One thing to be sure of - the arms should all be aluminium EXCEPT the (long) lower arms which were originally steel. Some aftermarket kits use aluminium for these, but the Phaeton is way too heavy to have the full suspension load go through aluminium.

You will also have great trouble getting the pinch bolt off. You'll probably need heat and an air hammer.

As Phaetal says, don't worry about re-pressurisation. So long as you have the level sensors connected correctly, the car should sort itself out but the engine may need to be running for quite a while.

 

[robbie-rocket-pants]

p.s. I think some others have been able to do all the arm changes without removing the strut (Invisiblewave ?)

 

[Phaetal]

p.s. I think some others have been able to do all the arm changes without removing the strut (Invisiblewave ?)

You’re absolutely right, there isn’t much difference in using VCDS to depressurise the fronts or just disconnect the battery and back off the airline screws to let the air escape.

I’d love to know how the hell anyone managed to remove the top arm bolts in situ!

 

[Phaetal]

Your method to remove the strut is probably best, but just to note that you strictly don't need to depressurise it with VCDS.
My method was to put the suspension into Jack Mode then place the car on jack stands. If you then remove the air-line, it will depressurise the strut down to the minimum residual pressure.



That lower bolt that touches against the subframe - I cut the old bolt off and then put the new one in from the opposite side. It's just as safe.

One thing to be sure of - the arms should all be aluminium EXCEPT the (long) lower arms which were originally steel. Some aftermarket kits use aluminium for these, but the Phaeton is way to heavy to have the full suspension load go through aluminium.

You will also have great trouble getting the pinch bolt off. You'll probably need heat and an air hammer.

As Phaetal says, don't worry about re-pressurisation. So long as you have the level sensors connected correctly, the car should sort itself out but the engine may need to be running for quite a while.

If youre going to beat the living daylights out of the pinch bold just remember to leave the nut on it so that it doesn’t deform the bolt and then cause you further headaches trying to get the bolt out. I managed to get mine off without having to resort to anything extreme so hopefully you[ll be lucky too!

 

[Amish Phaeton]

Also remember on re-assembly to use a lot of anti-seize on the pinch bolts to ensure that you don't have the same problem down the road.

 

[Bangusto87]

Your method to remove the strut is probably best, but just to note that you strictly don't need to depressurise it with VCDS.
My method was to put the suspension into Jack Mode then place the car on jack stands. If you then remove the air-line, it will depressurise the strut down to the minimum residual pressure.



That lower bolt that touches against the subframe - I cut the old bolt off and then put the new one in from the opposite side. It's just as safe.

One thing to be sure of - the arms should all be aluminium EXCEPT the (long) lower arms which were originally steel. Some aftermarket kits use aluminium for these, but the Phaeton is way too heavy to have the full suspension load go through aluminium.

You will also have great trouble getting the pinch bolt off. You'll probably need heat and an air hammer.

As Phaetal says, don't worry about re-pressurisation. So long as you have the level sensors connected correctly, the car should sort itself out but the engine may need to be running for quite a while.

Ok thanks for all the advice. In order to cut the lower Bolt where can i buy a new One in Advance. Someone know the part Number ??? Or the dimension

 

[robbie-rocket-pants]

I just went to the local VW dealer for the bolts.

 

[Phaetal]

Lllparts.co.uk gives you all the technical drawings and part numbers.

 

[invisiblewave]

p.s. I think some others have been able to do all the arm changes without removing the strut (Invisiblewave ?)

Yes, there's no need to remove the struts to do any of this, although access to the nuts on the upper control arms is tight. Also no need to depressurize the struts or remove the air line, although it's not a big deal if you do, the car will repressurize them when you start it (although it may take a few minutes to rise). I've also never disconnected the battery for suspension work. I was able to get the bolts out for the lower arms without cutting, but it was very tight, particularly on one side.

Technically, you also need to have the weight on the wheels before torquing the control arm bolts, to ensure correct seating of the bushings, although how this is actually done is beyond my understanding.

If you can fish out my thread on this, most of the torque values are there.

 

[Phaetonlvr]

You already got a lot of good info, here's some more in the original Control Arm Replacement Thread:
Suspension - Control Arm Replacement [TOC]

The part # of the bolt on the lower forward control arm is N-102-722-02. This is the bolt you will have to cut to get it out if you don't want to drop the front subframe.

I've done a total of 4 complete front suspension rebuilts on my Phaeton fleet and my recommendation to make your job easier is that you remove the front struts if you are replacing all the control arms. It's pretty easy and will get you a lot more access to everything and also minimize the risk that you damage the dust boots on the struts. Keep in mind that you will need a triple square socket for the three mounting bolt on the top of the air strut bracket.

 

[Phaetonlvr]

Technically, you also need to have the weight on the wheels before torquing the control arm bolts, to ensure correct seating of the bushings, although how this is actually done is beyond my understanding.

For the upper control arms you have the measurements in the manual, of course that only works if you have the strut with the mounting bracket removed from the car.

The bottom control arms can be tightened in the correct position by leaving the air strut deflated and then setting the wheel hub (with the wheel still off) onto a jack stand at the correct ride height (the measurements are in the suspension ride height thread). This way you have lots of access to the the bolts and the wheel is not in the way. You have to ensure that the wheel hub is properly supported though so it won't drop!

 

[Bangusto87]

For the upper control arms you have the measurements in the manual, of course that only works if you have the strut with the mounting bracket removed from the car.

The bottom control arms can be tightened in the correct position by leaving the air strut deflated and then setting the wheel hub (with the wheel still off) onto a jack stand at the correct ride height (the measurements are in the suspension ride height thread). This way you have lots of access to the the bolts and the wheel is not in the way. You have to ensure that the wheel hub is properly supported though so it won't drop!

Ok thanks but this Is the only part i dont understand. I have to measure the height from the center of the hub and the fender and After with the new arms use a support like the One in the photo and go up and down with the car lifter untill the height Is correct height and tighten the Bolt? Thank

 

[Phaetonlvr]

Yes, you understood that correctly. Just make sure there is no air in the strut or you will lift the whole car off the lift. Also if you have two jackstands available you should support both sides at the same time and then you can also put in the bolts from the drop links to the sway bar.