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Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)

Quote, originally posted by un4givun2 »
10) Failed cam adjuster replacement @ 76K
11) 2nd attempt at installing the adjusters failed by a VW tech @ 76K
12) 3rd attempt worked, but metal soon appeared in the oil @ 76K
13) Engine Replaced @ 76K
14) Alternator replaced at 76K
15) Fuel Tank sprung a leak also at 76K and was replaced

Like I said you have a bad mecahanic. All those problems at the same time is too much of a coincidence. Most VW dealers don't even see W8 so even a trained W8 tech can get rusty.
I'm sure W12 and W16 owners appreciate the fact that VW made the W8.
 

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Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (B5Speedo)

Quote, originally posted by B5Speedo »

Like I said you have a bad mecahanic. All those problems at the same time is too much of a coincidence. Most VW dealers don't even see W8 so even a trained W8 tech can get rusty.
I'm sure W12 and W16 owners appreciate the fact that VW made the W8.

Sorry if you misunderstood my list of Maintenance Disasters
All those items didn't break at 76K. They were repaired/replaced at 76K The emergency brake cable was sticking since about 55K. I never use it so it wasn't an issue. The cam adjusters failed at 69K. The car still ran and the dealer said as long as it runs you can drive it and I did. The radiator fan went out at 72K (forgot to include that one on my list). The car never overheated so I kept driving it. The gas tank started leaking at 76K. At that point I had no choice but to bring it in. I had 4 items break over a period of about 16K miles (6 months) and I brought it in when it became unsafe to drive.
The front brake rotors were replaced because they wanted $800.00 to turn the front rotors and replace the pads with OEM pads. I purchased aftermarket Brembos and ceramic pads for HALF that price. I typically go through rotors in 40-50K. These lasted 76K
This has been a typical pattern. Every 6 months I leave it at the dealer with at least $5,000.00 of repairs to be done. Within the first month or 3K miles after service something else breaks. I keep driving it until it becomes undriveable or 3-5 items break/fail (6 months tops).
Some people reading this will assume that I'm very hard on vehicles. I am hard brakes, but that's about it. I have a 2000 Dodge Dakota R/T that I drive 2 days a week and week ends and I drive it much harder than I drive this car. It now has 60K miles on it. It has never been in the shop. The only parts replaced on this truck are the brake rotors. Not one bolt has been touched on this truck
Thank God I kept it. I was offered 12K for it 3 years ago and I almost sold it. Without this reliable AMERICAN made truck in my stable I would be out hundreds of dollars in rental car fees.


Modified by un4givun2 at 4:32 PM 4-23-2009
 

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Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)

Quote, originally posted by un4givun2 »
The front brake rotors were replaced because they wanted $800.00 to turn the front rotors and replace the pads with OEM pads. I purchased aftermarket Brembos and ceramic pads for HALF that price.

If you got Bremo rotors I'd like to know where you purchased them. No place online I checked stocked them or was willing to order them. I found the VW dealer had the best price at $92 a pair. If your mechanic wanted to turn your front rotors they are idiots. It will not work. Like I said a lot your problems may be your mechanic.
Quote, originally posted by un4givun2 »
This has been a typical pattern. Every 6 months I leave it at the dealer with at least $5,000.00 of repairs to be done. Within the first month or 3K miles after service something else breaks. I keep driving it until it becomes undriveable or 3-5 items break/fail (6 months tops).

Wow, that's $10K per year. For a 2002 that would be $70K!!!!!!!!!!

At 62K miles I've had two warranty repairs. 1) outside temp sensor, 2) leaking radiator. Out of pocket cost was $50.
Yes, you have a lemon but it does not mean every W8 will be like your. I'm sorry you have had such a bad experience but every manufactrurer will have cars like that.
 

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Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)

Quote, originally posted by un4givun2 »

The cam adjusters failed at 69K. The car still ran and the dealer said as long as it runs you can drive it and I did.

Uhh, I got just the opposite advice from my mechanic... he told me not to drive at all with the car or else they could be VERY expensive miles. So, the car was towed to the carage & repaired & and I still have the same engine.
I'm not an expert myself, but I believe it is indeed not a good idea to drive when the engine's timing is off! Basically the whole engine is out of synch all the time, I really couldn't dare to tell anybody to just drive!
 

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Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (B5Speedo)

Just the repairs over $1k and the $20K I paid for the car comes to $54,000.00 in 4 years. That is $1,125.00 a month. That's not the total ownership cost. Granted, the warranty and/or extended warranty paid for most of that.
If they decide the engine needs replacing again on 4-28-09 the cost will jump to $74,000.00 in 48 months.
 

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Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (beneviva)

Quote, originally posted by beneviva »

Uhh, I got just the opposite advice from my mechanic... he told me not to drive at all with the car or else they could be VERY expensive miles. So, the car was towed to the carage & repaired & and I still have the same engine.
I'm not an expert myself, but I believe it is indeed not a good idea to drive when the engine's timing is off! Basically the whole engine is out of synch all the time, I really couldn't dare to tell anybody to just drive!

First of all, the cam adjusters don't control the engine timing. The ECU controls the engine timing. If a cam adjuster fails you no longer have that fancy variable valve timing that gives this engine it's little extra oomph. As long as the valves clear the pistons there is no damage that can occur to the engine running it with the valves opening and closing more advanced than they are supposed to be. Those clearances are already built into the engine. All you sacrifice is HP in the upper RPM range and torque in the lower RPM range.
 

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Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)

I disagree completely! By having the cam adjusters failing you run the risk of stretching the timing chain. What is really failing is a screen that filters the oil for the hydrolics of the adjusters. Once a chain starts to stretch more problems will arise.

Quote, originally posted by un4givun2 »

First of all, the cam adjusters don't control the engine timing. The ECU controls the engine timing. If a cam adjuster fails you no longer have that fancy variable valve timing that gives this engine it's little extra oomph. As long as the valves clear the pistons there is no damage that can occur to the engine running it with the valves opening and closing more advanced than they are supposed to be. Those clearances are already built into the engine. All you sacrifice is HP in the upper RPM range and torque in the lower RPM range.
 

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Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (B5Speedo)

b5speedo is right. Ignore the cam P codes and the timing chain will stretch or jump a tooth. Don't ask me or my dealer how I know (they took it on trade). Expensive problems will become even slightly more expnensive. Every time I see one of those almost great cars in my town I want to leave a letter of warning and link to these sights so that they can be forewarned. Lost a lot of money on that toy! Oh - and mine only had 50,200 miles but after it was auction twice after the trade it was in need of a second Torque converter in addition to all the other junk. Any way you try and spin that it still comes up as stupid.


Modified by alaskadub at 3:49 PM 5-6-2009
 

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Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (alaskadub)

First of all, a 79,000 mile motor already has timing chain stretch. It's called normal wear and tear.
Second of all, the timing chain assembly gets replaced when ever they replace the cam adjusters. That's all part of the $5,500.00 price tag.
Putting the old timing chain back on an 80K engine that just got the cam adjusters replaced would be like putting the old piston rings back in an engine with a new set of pistons.
In other words, to worry about the timing chain stretching at this point in the game is ridiculous.
 

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Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)

And this is from the expert who has sunk over $10K in his car and will never buy another VW again?

Quote, originally posted by un4givun2 »
First of all, a 79,000 mile motor already has timing chain stretch. It's called normal wear and tear.
Second of all, the timing chain assembly gets replaced when ever they replace the cam adjusters. That's all part of the $5,500.00 price tag.
Putting the old timing chain back on an 80K engine that just got the cam adjusters replaced would be like putting the old piston rings back in an engine with a new set of pistons.
In other words, to worry about the timing chain stretching at this point in the game is ridiculous.
 

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Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)

That 5,500 dollar price tag must have been for parts, with you doing your own labor (holier than thou mechanic type that mysteriously dumped hisW8 too). Or do I have the wrong uber mechanic. The price seems to trend closer to the 7500 to 10,000 dolloar range. At any rate. Nurse along a W8 that is throwing cam codes while trying to fix it by dumping in Sea foam, etc and you risk having the timing chain jump, which if ignored can cause further problems. So good luck with that. Again, I miss mine, but (presumably) just like the uber mechanic it was too much $$ and hassle for the fun. Buy a used A6 avant and have slightly more predictable expenses.
 

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There not so bad

I was a 2007 certified VW Master technician working at a Dealer in the Pacific Northwest. I have since left for the dealerships for greener grass. I loved doing cam adjusters on these W8's. I did at least 20 before I left the dealer. Some where brought to me from other dealers who refused to do the job. At first I did the engine/trans R&R; Probably the first 12-15. The ONLY REASON you would need to remove the engine to do the camshaft adjusters is to loosen the chain tensioner on the passenger bank. You cannot get a wrench on it in the car (or can you). A 27mm hex drive external tensioner (similar if not the same as the VR6 tensioner) cannot be removed without removing the exhaust manifold.

I have seen the "electroshock therapy" tech tip usually work about 50% of the time. It was almost never a permanent repair. Most cars needed to have the adjusters replaced.

Never was I told nor do I think it is necessary to replace the timing chains. There are tensioners which will take up the slack of an aging chain. There is no need to remove the engine, trans or flywheel to fix this problem. Just replace the adjuster solenoids, blow out the passages in the camshafts, replace the sealing rings on the camshaft, clean and blow out the mechanical adjuster drums. It is also important to prime the oil system before starting. I had a small adapter that I used to connect pressurized oil to the oil filter cap drain plug and pumped 9 quarts before starting. If you don't do this then it will be very noisy for a few seconds after initial start up and may jump a tooth on the chain. Learned that one the hard way.

There is a way to replace these adjusters without removing the engine. If any TECHNICIAN wants to know how you can send a message to [email protected]

As to Unforgiven's car:
The electrical issues were caused by the engine to chassis ground cable either loose or not installed at all. this was a mistake by the technician. I'm they realized this and neglected to tell you.

Your fuel gauges and instrument cluster were fine. After they replaced those they found out the problem was water leaking into the trunk which played hell with your fuel pump control module. This will cause issues with the CAN Bus and can sometimes cause the windows, door locks and other comfort module functions to be erratic.

The reason the original repair was unsuccessful was because some of the bits of screen were stuck on the passages in the camshafts. I would always blow these out with shop air. I learned this the hard way too.

As to the metal shavings: The reason the screens are installed in the cam adjuster was to prevent metal shaving from entering the adjusters during the initial break-in of the engine. These engines are built by method of "Torqued at temperature." The rotating assembly is torqued in a fancy oven at engine operating temperatures. These are extremely tight tolerances and some metal shavings are normal. Most shavings wont make it past the filter but if they do they wont get past the adjuster screens. Can you say "backfire"?

All cars have their issues; The W8's issues were expensive. The Torque converter is not a problem which was exclusive to the W8; Ask any Audi technician. Once the TC and the Cam adjuster are done, this car is a very low maintenance vehicle. But like any automatic transmission car, it will be replaced eventually. That is why I own a 6 speed manual transmission W8 wagon.

Cheers
 
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