[vlksdragon]

I went to test fit a set of 45 DCOE13s on a two piece TWM long manifold, and I ran into a
problem with the ends of the throttle shafts interfering with each other, preventing the two
carbs from mounting.

It's almost a centimeter of interference, but before I go crazy and trim the shaft ends, is
there something about this that I'm missing?

Lousy pic, but you can kinda see the shaft ends in between the two carbs interfering, preventing
the carb on the right from mounting on the manifold:

 

[Rheinland Technik]

Are the carbs on the correct side?

 

[vlksdragon]

Are the carbs on the correct side?

I'm not sure what you're asking?

 

[Rheinland Technik]

There is a left carb and a right carb. The linkage for the carbs when connecting duals is specific to a dual set, rather than a single carb. IE: if you are running carbs not origianlly configured for dual carb use, then you will have an issue such as this, or the other cause of interference is you have the wrong carb on the wrong manifold mounting point.

 

[vlksdragon]

Interesting, I had no idea the matched pairs were any different than singles. These were
from two different sources, so they are not matched. How are the throttle shaft ends
different on the matched pairs? Does anyone have a closeup pic?

 

[Rheinland Technik]

 

[candm]

I went to test fit a set of 45 DCOE13s on a two piece TWM long manifold, and I ran into a
problem with the ends of the throttle shafts interfering with each other, preventing the two
carbs from mounting.

It's almost a centimeter of interference, but before I go crazy and trim the shaft ends, is
there something about this that I'm missing?

Lousy pic, but you can kinda see the shaft ends in between the two carbs interfering, preventing
the carb on the right from mounting on the manifold:

you are going to have to grind each of the throttle shaft ends slightly. i have the same setup

 

[VdubyaVR6]

you are going to have to grind each of the throttle shaft ends slightly. i have the same setup

x2 I have the same setup I'm working on and I just figured that out this week as well. Pic with the linkage installed.

 

[Rheinland Technik]

you are going to have to grind each of the throttle shaft ends slightly. i have the same setup

That won't help him without having the correct interfacing linkage to tie the two carbs together.

 

[candm]

That won't help him without having the correct interfacing linkage to tie the two carbs together.

you are correct.:beer:

 

[vlksdragon]

Thanks for the info everyone. Do linkage kits typically come with the interfacing pieces, or
do I need to find those separately?

 

[candm]

i dont remember if they were included when i bought my linkage setup, but if they are new carbs, they usually are included. you can get them at www.piercemanifolds.com as well as a number of other places

 

[vlksdragon]

Resurrecting an old thread (my own), but I'm finally getting around to my dual weber 16v build, and I'm still running into this same problem with the interfering throttle shafts when using the TWM/Pierce long runner manifolds.

In mocking them up, I'm finding I need to trim more (~3-4mm) from the shafts than I have available. For those of you that ran into this same issue, did you go to lower profile nuts to be able to trim enough?

 

[betterfood]

Looks like your original picture is gone? Can you post another one?

I am in the process of installing the 60mm Pierce manifold. I'm not overly happy with the quality of their fitment. In fact it's pretty ****. A full half of the screws into the head cannot be installed even when using shorter screws as they hit the casting. I have to grind out my brand new manifold just to mount it...

When I installed the carbs to the manifold they they were well clear of each other. When I swapped out the throttle shaft washer on the carb with the throttle cable for the linkage coupler, the throttle lever on the other carb was interfering with the linkage so I hard to grind that down. I will try and get a picture later today.

This is how a shortened head screw fits in their 60mm manifold.

 

[DbilasTDI]

you have to use studs to mount the intake.
get aircooled 8mm nuts these will minimize the clearancing required: https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3332.htm
I used a dremel and sanding drums to clearance top of cyl 1 and 2
put the intake on and start those problem nuts with the intake just exposing the end of the stud.
"push" the intake to the head by tightening the 2 problem nuts a bit at a time. It has to come off in similar fashion. The other nuts should not be an issue
the nut becomes "captured" between the intake runner and the stud if you put the end of the intake up against the head and try to start the nut.
I quit using the standard o ring mounts or the borg warner either. I use a phenolic spacer for the heat and 2 gaskets
I used 8mm Thackery washers (ebay.co.uk) to allow for "soft mounting"
I took a 10mm wrench and ground off the sides to allow closer fitment for final tightening of the intake nuts. I keep this wrench in the truck but it has never come loose. I drilled and tapped 2 6mm flanged nuts to 8mm so 10mm wrench. you cannot use a box end wrench: it will not fit.

Yes, its all a bit of pita and expense considering you could have bought an intake for a V8 muscle car and it fit perfect for less. This happens with "tuner ish" sometimes. Still in the end it is for the best as the carbs are real close to the valves and you have the most room left over in front of the carbs.

also install a 90° fitting into runner #4 before you install the intake cause after it is on all you can do is a straight fitting.

 

[betterfood]

you have to use studs to mount the intake.
get aircooled 8mm nuts these will minimize the clearancing required:
I used a dremel and sanding drums to clearance top of cyl 1 and 2
...
Yes, its all a bit of pita and expense considering you could have bought an intake for a V8 muscle car and it fit perfect for less. This happens with "tuner ish" sometimes. Still in the end it is for the best as the carbs are real close to the valves and you have the most room left over in front of the carbs.

also install a 90° fitting into runner #4 before you install the intake cause after it is on all you can do is a straight fitting.

I had written off studs because I figured the nuts would be too big. But those nuts look like they will help immensely. Even still you can see in my image the fillet on the machined surface is right there the flange will go. Sloppy.

The whole experience and kit is really sloppy. I expected better for the price I paid, but maybe I'm just cheap. They didn't bother telling me I needed studs and special nuts. When I emailed them about this issue they told me to call them, instead of replying with the very simple answer you just gave me. Why should I, the paying customer, have to call you long distance when you could just look at the pictures I sent and say "oh, you need small nuts...". Communication prior to ordering was really spotty as well, questions were just ignored or an email with multiple questions got a single "yes" response. When I called and ordered I explicitly asked them if I needed the cast water outlet piece with the 60mm manifold, they said no, yet when installed the Carb body pushes into the water hose. It's probably fine but, WTF, I would have happily bought the water outlet if I had know they would interfere. I'm not going to order it now because shipping is ridiculous and I don't particularly feel like giving them any more money. I get that this is bit of a custom setup but don't call it a "kit" if half the parts aren't there or don't work with stock parts. At least stock some necessary items and I'll buy them separately. They told me it was going to cost $50 extra to get the carbs jetted the way I want, which was fine. They didn't end up charging me the $50 and just threw the air correctors I wanted in the bag with the rest of the accessories. Which is great, free jets, but I had to take the carbs apart to check the rest of the jets were what I asked for as they originally told me the standard jetting was vastly different than what I wanted. They were all correct except the air corrector, so I have no idea what happened there. It's all just so damn unprofessional. If I treated my clients like that I would be out of work very quickly. I cannot recommend Pierce Manifold to anyone, unfortunately there's not much of an alternative as Redline also was trash to deal with, which is why I went with Pierce in the first place. Anyways, I'm done ranting now.

My manifold doesn't have the port on cyl 4 like the dbilas one. There is a boss for it but it's not drilled out. I don't know who actually makes this manifold. There are no markings on it other than "VW" and "16V". The "Manifold" in Pierce Manifold would indicate they make it but they could just be a reseller, I have no idea.

Also, is your filter box held together with an extension cord?

 

[DbilasTDI]

My intake is the same as yours. Weber makes them. You will need to drill the bung into the boss on #4

Sorry but Weber stuff, Italian stuff, can be a little chintzy by nature. I mean is a Fiat really ever "good?" Is a Ferrari "reliable?" Luckily when dialed in or close, DCOEs are great and when not dialed in they aren't too bad.

Compare a Weber to a Mikuni, basically the same but the Mukini is so much nicer, better material, better fit and finish

I had to get some new o-rings for the DBilas air plenum.

Dude this is all part of the fun. Hang in there. You will hit no problem someone else has not discovered. you need a cheep electric pump, a Facet or other small pump. I think the little Edelbrock $50-60 one is popular

 

[betterfood]

You will need to drill the bung into the boss on #4

Dude this is all part of the fun. Hang in there. You will hit no problem someone else has not discovered. you need a cheep electric pump, a Facet or other small pump. I think the little Edelbrock $50-60 one is popular

What is the purpose of your #4 bung? Brake booster? Does it generate enough vacuum to be of any use?

I am aware of all the "fun". This is not my first time. Just disappointed and needed a rant.

 

[DbilasTDI]

yes the brakes get plenty of vacuum, 2117cc, 276 cams, 21mm master, 11.3" fronts, rear disk

 

[vlksdragon]

Sorry, realized I never came back to this thread with a pic:

Note that I don't have the other connecting linkage piece on the right carb. If I trim the shaft down for clearance, I don't think there's enough room for that piece and the nut.