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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
What do you mean you’re “outsourcing my position”?! -or- the "Diamond Dave looks for a job" thread

This is so ironic it’s almost comical. My job has been outsourced. As in, the entire sales and marketing functional area. Did I mention I was the Director of Sales for a BPO (business process outsourcer)?


So, I thought I'd make a "project" thread about the process of me looking for work; since I'm never short on ideas about everyone else's job search ;) My target is to have a job or offer by Nov 15. If I don't have something by that point, I won't expect anything until February 2013.


I've been casually looking for a few months anyway, so it's not like I'm at ground zero, but still, I'd have much rather found a job while I was employed. Oh well, the time off will be nice to spend with the kids. I love this time of year anyway.


I plan to use the hunt and steal method as opposed to applying for jobs. I'll post some screen shots of how I track the jobs I'm trying to land and the type of information I use to contact the people doing the hiring.





Hit me with any questions or comments.





[edit - Oct8]
If you haven't seen my Lessons, here they are for your convenience.

Lesson 1 - So you need a job. What are you doing?

Lesson 2 - So you need a job. You do have a resume; don't you?

Lesson 3 - So you need a job. Where are you looking?

Lesson 4 - So you need a job. Are you job hunting or snipe hunting?

Lesson 5 - So you need a job. Tips on how to *submit* your resume.
 

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:laugh: Ironic it is

Good Luck in your job search, Dave. :thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the comments guys. Honestly though, the new schedule is great and my commute is about 5 minutes by long board while my kids ride their bikes to school.


Here's how I search for a new job.


First, the patented Diamond Dave Job Hunting method: Find companies that should hire you; don't look for job postings. Why is that? If there is a job posting, there are hundreds of applicants; many probably better than you. If you network with the people that should be hiring you anyway, they start thinking of you at their company and where you'd slot in to the organization. Pretty soon, they're subconsciously writing a job description for you. Then you're only competing with yourself. Sure, apply to a ton of things along the way, but when you make your own opportunity in the world, your sense of value grows exponentially.




Sorry it's so damn small and grainy. I'm already at odds putting people's names and contact info up, but, suck it.

The key information fields are the company names and the contact names. You'll see that most companies don't have a position listed. That's because there isn't one advertised. I don't care. Those are companies that I could work for or that I want to work for, so I'll be calling the Director or VP directly to introduce myself and network. Some of these are companies I knew about, others were referred to me when I reached out to my LinkedIn group and others came from basic research for my job title in SimplyHired.com.

I use LinkedIn to find everyone. I haven't paid money to LinkedIn in years. Just use your Google membership.

- linkedin.com: company + title
This gives you a longer list of names to choose from or it gives you the last name when LI only gives you the first name.

Finding contact information:
- John Doe + Company + contact
- John Doe + Company + .xls/.pdf/.doc
- "John Doe" + title + companyemail.com



I built this Everything that looks like a hyperlink is a hyperlink. I go to the company Web site and get the link to the "job opportunities" or "careers" page and use right click + hyperlink to insert it in the cell. Then I do the same for the landing page that the job description is on under the title of the job description. And finally, I copy the full job description and paste it into a comment attached to the job description (because they'll kill the hyperlink to the job opening sometimes).


Second, Unemployment tracking is slightly different than a real job search because a real job search entails numerous functions with the same employer. The State doesn't view those as productive. They view shipping resumes off into cyberspace as being productive. So, I spend about 2hrs and grab 5-10 plausible job postings that satisfy that requirement. They're the kind of job postings you "think" are going to pan out, but since 500 people applied for them, they most likely won't.




This spreadsheet should contain all the info you'd need to make your unemployment claim quickly and effectively. Also, if audited, you'll have documentation. If, by some miracle, you actually DO get called by a recruiter, you'll be able to quickly orient yourself to the company, the position you applied for and when you applied. For reference, I started this unemployment sheet from scratch during my son's first day at Kindergarten. Took about 2hrs. Oregon only requires you make 3 attempts per week, yet I'm able to make 12 attempts in 2hrs




For each of these spreadsheets (as books within a spreadsheet), you'll want to update it each time with notes in a note field and with the exact name of the person you spoke with as well as email/phone/title. I also like to leave some indication in a note as to what the next expected step is or what I was told the next step will be.
 

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It could be anticipated that you might use this thread as a reference in your resume or in an email application letter to show that you can organize a creative, systematic job search method and have the energy to post it here for the benefit of others. Good luck to you with your quest.
 

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I like this thread, it seems like an innovative method for finding a job. It seems more biased towards small companies though. I've found that the large corporations love to do things more anonymously. Maybe to make it a bit more challenging, try getting a job at a huge company like GE, Boeing, or Bank of America.
 

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I like this thread, it seems like an innovative method for finding a job. It seems more biased towards small companies though. I've found that the large corporations love to do things more anonymously. Maybe to make it a bit more challenging, try getting a job at a huge company like GE, Boeing, or Bank of America.
It works the same way. Get to know the people in the organization that make the decisions. Hiring at that level is usually a top-down request. The people at the top can tell the hiring manager who to hire.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I like this thread, it seems like an innovative method for finding a job. It seems more biased towards small companies though. I've found that the large corporations love to do things more anonymously. Maybe to make it a bit more challenging, try getting a job at a huge company like GE, Boeing, or Bank of America.
long answer:
Yes and no. I'm talking with one of the VP's for Siemens. It's not so much about getting a handshake job offer, it's about talking with the person at the top of the food chain.

Here's how a recruiting process at both might work.

Small company: job posting --> recruiter/hiring manager

Large company: job posting -> recruiting coordinator -> recruiter -> manager -> hiring manager -> Department manager

You can't really skip the process with a larger company, but which situation would you rather: apply with the other 500 people or would you rather the HM or DM walk over to the recruiter and tell them "bring in this candidate for an interview".


Short answer:
It works the same way. Get to know the people in the organization that make the decisions. Hiring at that level is usually a top-down request. The people at the top can suggest to the hiring manager who to hire.
slam dunk.


It could be anticipated that you might use this thread as a reference in your resume or in an email application letter to show that you can organize a creative, systematic job search method and have the energy to post it here for the benefit of others.
While I appreciate your sentiments, I can't see a plausible reason how that would add any value. No future employer really cares about how you do your job search unless a job search is related to your job function.
 

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long answer:
Yes and no. I'm talking with one of the VP's for Siemens. It's not so much about getting a handshake job offer, it's about talking with the person at the top of the food chain.

Here's how a recruiting process at both might work.

Small company: job posting --> recruiter/hiring manager

Large company: job posting -> recruiting coordinator -> recruiter -> manager -> hiring manager -> Department manager

You can't really skip the process with a larger company, but which situation would you rather: apply with the other 500 people or would you rather the HM or DM walk over to the recruiter and tell them "bring in this candidate for an interview".
Oh I totally understand, its just that it's generally harder to get into contact and stand out from others with the VP of Seimens than the VP of "Joe's local widget company". At the last place I worked (division of United Technologies Corp), the director of engineering would get calls all the time from people wanting to apply, and he would politely give them the number for HR and not think anything else about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Quick update from last week.

Topic- Skirting the application process and going to the top of the food chain.

Had a networking conversation with a Business Development (BDM) acquaintance I’d met on several other occasions while attending conferences or trade shows. Let him know my situation and he gave me insight on how to approach his boss (Director of Sales). He said his boss would appreciate a succinct email introduction and that I should request time on his calendar to connect by phone later next week. He also gave me his boss’ email address.


Here’s the sanitized sample example of what I did and the result I have so far First email sent on Thursday the 13th.

This is a correspondence with a Director of Sales from a company that has a division of products that I could fit well with. In fairness, I have spoken several times with a BDM that works reports to this Director and this BDM told me that his boss was at one of the conferences we attended, so I’m taking some artistic license when I tell him “we spoke about opportunities”. He’s met a few hundred people in the intervening months, so he totally doesn’t remember that we haven’t met. But, I was at the conference and I know they were there, so that’s good enough for me.



Jack,
My name is Diamond Dave. We met briefly at CS Week earlier this year when John Smith introduced us. I've met John on several occasions at other trade conferences. At CS Week the three of us had a brief conversation and you mentioned some growing opportunities with ABC Company and I'd like to follow-up with you on a business development role for someone with experience selling to Gas, electric, and water utility companies.

I've been in outside sales roles for the better part of 10 years and always selling solutions through consultative or relation-ship based techniques. My recent experience was with XYZ Company as the Director of Sales & Marketing. XYZ Company supports utilities with call center and payment transaction solutions.

If you have time, I'd like to have a phone call with you next week on Wednesday the 19th at 10AM PST. I can be reached on my cell phone at (503) 555-1212 I'm sure you must travel frequently, so if there is a date or time that works better for your schedule, please don't hesitate to adjust the date.

I look forward to speaking with you.

Regards,
Diamond Dave




note: I sent my email on the 13th and his out of office email was turned on, indicating that he would be back to work on the 17th, but this reply came back to me on the 14th.
Jack Smith at ABC Company said:
Hi Diamond Dave,
We have a new President, and he has decided to build out our medical division faster than the utility division.
I will ask him for an update on time frame as to when we are moving forward with hiring for the utility segment and get back to you.

Can you please send me your resume?
Thanks,
Jack Smith
Director of Sales
Jack, please find my resume enclosed. When you receive your update on Utility growth, please keep me posted. If you feel my background could be applied toward the medical vertical to benefit ABC Company, I'd be happy to discuss my abilities with you.

Regards,
Diamond Dave



Jack Smith at ABC Company said:
Thanks Diamond Dave….I will put you in the queue and reach out once we move forward with our hiring in the utility vertical
Jack Smith

Director of Sales


So, what does this mean? In the span of 96hrs (Sept13 to Sept17), I have introduced myself to a hiring manager, he's let me know the company is going through change (new President) and that the Utility vertical is on hold for awhile. However, he has asked for my resume and he can track me for the moment he thinks they might do hiring. He won't need to open a req, go to HR and write the job posting, have recruiting post the job, or wait for recruiting to spend a week (or three) screening mouth breather online applicants. He'll simply open my resume or search for this email string. I also know that I don't need to spend the next 4wks on pins and needles hoping that I'll get a phone call from them and then getting disappointed when I don't hear from them.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
FV-QR

In other news, if anyone is looking to buy a Recaro Trophy office chair or Recaro Office chair adapter or a pair of power Recaro trophy's, hit me up.



1) recaro trophy office chair
2) set of power Recaro trophies
3) Recaro Office chair adapter plate
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Here's another correspondence with one of my friends that generated from my initial "Hey everyone, a funny thing happened on Thursday" email through LinkedIn.


Jane Doe said:
Send me your resume...I can pass it over to the regional sales manager here at EMC if you are interested! I report dotted line to him and can make a recommendation. He has been hiring too.

Jane

Jane, I've finally finished my resume update. Please forward this to your boss. I'm not sure what needs EMC has, but I'm looking for a Regional or National business development role.

dd



Jane Doe said:
Diamond Dave,
I sent your resume to Luke Skywalker (Regional Sales in PacNW) and his manager Speed Racer (National Sales). They both cover Commercial accounts, which focuses on customers with a certain number of employees / annual earnings (not sure exactly what the breaking point is between SMB, Commercial and Enterprise). SMB (Small Market Business) & Commercial tend to juggle more customer and have a tight relationship with Partners/Resellers. I support Luke’s team to drive booked deals into production. Good group of people. There are a 3-4 sales reps in Portland now. It’s a growing business.

Warm Regards,
Jane Doe



Based on their job opportunities page, I'm not sure if I'd be considered for one of their sales positions if one of their recruiters saw my resume. Also, the positions service multiple geographic areas, so they might prefer an "easy" candidate that already lives in NorCal, as opposed to onie living in Oregon and covering NorCal. However, a personal referral to the Hiring Manager is gold. THEY know what they want. And if one of their employees recommends someone, they are way more likely to reach out to that person.
 

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Subscribed. I've been "looking" for over a year now. My disadvantage is that I left my job of 10+ years to move to a small town because my wife was promoted into a killer c-level position. As for the town, we're talking < 100k people, and most of them work with sheep, oil, or wear scrubs to work. So I'm at a distinct disadvantage already, coming from an IT and technical sales background :laugh:. The irony is that while I'm looking for something that's a better fit, I'm working as a technical recruiter to fill positions in every part of the country except here :screwy:.
Anyways, DD knows his stuff, and I'm following along here. I'm not here forever though, so hopefully when we move back to civilization I can have some ideas on how to get re-acquainted to a real job market :eek::thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
names and company names have been altered to enhance anonymity



Here's a reply from the first company I spoke with. They have no opportunities posted anywhere, but a business associate suggested I contact the VP and introduced myself while referencing his name since they *might* be looking in the near future.


Good afternoon David,
My name is Diamond Dave and I have National Business Development experience selling call center and consulting services to Utility companies. I've recently begun a confidential search for a Business Development role that will allow me to leverage my experience and contacts in the Utility industry and John Smith at Navex Global spoke very highly of Energy Motion Software. It's likely that you and I have met through my involvement with the National Energy Association at the Spring Conference or annual meetings.

I would enjoy having a conversation with you regarding any opportunity that Energy Motion Software may have today or in the future for someone with my background.

Regards,
Diamond Dave



David at Energy Motion Software said:
Hello David,

Thanks for the note. I'll be on the road for the next couple of weeks, and Katarina (our recruiter) is on vacation, so unless there's a big rush on your side I'd like to have Katarina get back to you in tge second half of September.

Which utilities have you worked with the most? What have you sold and to which people in which departments?

All the best, and talk to you soon,

David


Thanks David,
I'd be more than happy to speak with Katarina when she's back from travel.

I've been selling services and solutions to companies for about 10 years. Typically it's the type of service that they can do internally, but they might lack the resources or the skill to do at the level they desire; so I've needed to perfect a consultative and relationship-based sales approach. I've got experience selling staffing and recruiting services and I even owned my own head hunting company for a few years (closed when the economy ground to a halt in 2010). Most recently, with Outsourcings Utility Teleservices, I've sold contact center and Payment transaction services. Interestingly, my background head hunting has given me the greatest experience with researching targets, identifying decision makers, and getting their direct contact information. I typically engage with Director level and above contacts to build business. I'm very skilled at developing relationships through becoming a Subject Matter Expert or through participating in niche organizations. This method obviously allows me to brand my company and gain access to decision makers, but most importantly, it gives me credibility because I'm participating and giving back to the collective community. Credibility makes people pick up or return phone calls and makes buying decisions easier.

Most of the Utility contacts I know are at the Director level and had oversight across several pieces of the organization. Some were Director/VP of Operations and others were Director/VP of Customer Service (Even if they aren't the direct contact that Energy Motion Software would contact, I could leverage a referral to the correct contact). The majority of my contacts had little to do with the T&D side of the house. Most of the contacts were concerned specifically about maintaining or raising customer satisfaction or they wanted to maintain an edge on competition through customer satisfaction. I have existing connections with the following Utility companies:

BC Hydro (current Pulse client)
NorthWestern Energy
NW Natural Gas
PacifiCorp
Puget Sound Energy
SouthWest Gas
Questar Gas
SMUD
Vectren Energy
PGE (Portland General Electric)
Montana-Dakota / Inter-mountain Gas
Fortis BC


Please forward my info to Katarina and she can schedule or call when she returns from vacation. I'm seeking a National or Regional Business Development role with a majority focus on landing new business. I can develop a territory or grow an existing territory. I'm open to travel and I'm interested in a remote, home-based office rather than relocating.


Regards,
Diamond Dave





Here's the response from Mlonday.

From Katarina said:
Hi David,

Thanks for reaching out. I will be happy to set up a phone call with you some time this week.
Could you please send me your resume and your availability?
Thank you!

Best Regards,
Katarina




In other news, I put fresh bearings on my daily driver.

 

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Discussion Starter #20
As we all know, the best time to find a new job is when you have one already. Obviously, this allows you the opportunity to be as picky as possible about your next opportunity. Well, being unemployed presents several challenges that you need to cope with, mentally, in order to come out on top.


Right now, there are a lot of opportunities out there, but they're just "jobs". I liken a job search to going to a HS dance. There's a few hot chicks you want to hook up with, a lot of average ones, and then there are the "others". It all depends on how desperate you are to get back to work.

I've got a few companies that want to talk with me about local sales jobs that are exactly like what I was doing 10yrs ago. Sadly, the pay is what I was earning 10yrs ago (~$40K + commission) and the scope of the role is really further back in my skill set. This tells me that if I needed to make an immediate shift in to working, there are opportunities. However, my goal is to find something exciting AND that is in my salary range (~$85K+). To achieve that goal, I've got to get more than just one company interested at the same time so I can leverage my salary negotiations.


Also, keep in mind that in order to maintain some of your sanity and stay "fresh" you need to smell the roses. Would you like to have a job right now? Yes. Is getting a job immediately within your power? No. Come to grips with that and start balancing your like. Get on a workout program; you'll feel better about yourself. Volunteer at your kid's school and be more involved while you can. Tackle those house projects that you've ignored because you were "working hard". But don't forget about working to find that job while you diversify your activities.

Also, here's my Dear John letter from the company above that I cold called. A perfect reminder that a resume isn't going to get you anywhere. You need to be in front of the hiring manager; not just email and phone calls, but referrals from people he knows. It's got to seem to him that everyone is talking about you and that he really needs to evaluate what the buzz is about. This time, no buzz for DD :( Hard to be too disappointed though; easy come, easy go. Or perhaps, another "No" out of the way on the long path to a "YES".

Katarina said:
Hi David,

Yes, I did receive your resume. Thank you.
I sent it to our VP Sales and unfortunately he can't see a match for you right now. I will keep your resume on file and as soon as something that matches your profile comes up, I'll contact you.

Best regards,
Katarina

I did get a VM from a company looking for a Regional Business Development role. It's with a company that is nicely corporate, but I'm not thrilled about working for them. The pay, however, is more in line with what I need salary wise. $2K/mo on unemployment or ~$7K a month to get a job where I could do working unemployment. Hmm, I'll have to think about this.


Also, I qualify for a program through the State for Self Employment Assistance. Basically, I submit a business plan, they approve it, and I get 52wks of unemployment payments so I can start my own business. I've got a few options with this, but honestly, I just don't see this next 2yrs as being the best time to start a successful business. We'll see.
 
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