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Re: What is better ride quality? Coil overs or springs? (bollo)

I agree with Bollo. I just put the coils on yesterday, but the difference is amazing. It is as tight as my spring/shock combo I had on my 2.0L, but not nearly as harsh.
 

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Re: What is better ride quality? Coil overs or springs? (f1forkvr6)

I have just gotten the H&R cupkit installed and I love it.My son has the KW coilovers..I like that too... more of a drop, more aggressive ride than cupkit. Both are nice. The cupkit gave my vr6 a very nice drop and the ride is much more stiff than stock...very good choice for me.
 

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Re: What is better ride quality? Coil overs or springs? (f1forkvr6)

quote:[HR][/HR]so many votes
so few objective reasons[HR][/HR]​
Because it's a question that has no objective answer, for one..
For another, there's nothing inherent in springs/damper versus coilovers that makes
one ride better or worse than the other.
The key to good ride quality is having perfectly matched dampers for your springs,
AND having perfectly matched springs to the weight distribution and suspension
geometry of your car. (Just because the car has a 65/35 weight dist doesn't
mean that the spring rates should be 65/35 front/rear because the geometry
of a strut, and trailing arm change the effective rates at the wheels).
Anyway.. If someone designs a set of springs to go with a particular
type of dampers and tailors the rates to match your car, then *that* will
ride best. Quality coilovers are usually designed so that the spring rate
and damping are well matched, because they do obviously come together
as a single unit, so they'd better *work* well as a single unit. But that
doesn't guarantee that they'll match the weight distribution of your car at all.
In addition, a lot of people misuse their coilovers for nothing but lowering
so at their optimal ride height they may ride great, but drop em 45mm and
they ride quite badly.
In terms of how compliant and comfortable the ride is.. matching the rates
to the weight dist, is really to try to match the oscillation frequencies
at each end of the car. When you go over a bump, each end of the car
compresses and rebounds a couple times before the dampers stop
the oscillations completely. Generally you want them to recover
about the same time. What the rear end is doing though is
generally what you feel in the seat of your pants. If the frequency at the rear
is the same as the front, it'll feel ok. But generally having the rear recover slower than
the front is preferable. You almost never want to have the rear end recover
significantly faster than the front, or the ride quality will be crap.
Look at cars with cut springs, and you'll see this a lot. They hit a bump
and the front and rear of the car bounce up and down at different rates
completely. It's brutal.
On our cars, which have so much weight up front, what this means
is that usually you can use pretty high rate front springs to
manage the weight of the engine and control camber and such, and
get away with having relatively low rate rear springs to offer a more
comfortable ride. The trick is matching them up right for your
desired level of performance, comfort and looks. Sometimes
a coilover is the answer, sometimes just a set of matched springs/dampers
is the way to go. The real big red flag for me is when I see a vendor
selling a set of coilovers or springs/dampers that uses the exact
same kit for different models of the car. If they're using the
same kit for VR6s, 1.8Ts and 2.0s, then at least one of them is
going to ride quite badly. Damping/height adjustments alone cannot
solve this problem.
ian
 

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Re: What is better ride quality? Coil overs or springs? (Daemon42)

I agree on all accounts ... just trying to get the thoughts flowing yet again, instead of just another meaningless poll tally
.
One of my responses to a previous "ride quality/coilover" discussion:
"The two things that most affect handling and comfort are
1. Spring Rates (Springs)
2. Effective control of the springs energy (shock absorbers, struts).
No matter what option you choose, coilovers (defined as threaded body struts and shocks, with 2.5" diameter springs) or a non-coilover system ("regular" struts and and shocks with OEM diameter springs) - you will be using springs. Additionally no matter what form the dampers come in (threaded bodied struts/shocks or "regular" struts/shocks) their main purpose is to control the springs.
There is absolutely NO "inherent quality" in a coilover setup, that has anything to do with spring rate, or spring control capabilities – period. Spring rates are spring rates, no matter what diameter the coils are wound. Shocks/Struts/Dampers all do the same thing no matter what they look like.
In short: All setups use springs, and to a point higher spring rates = stiffer ride and better handling. All setups have something to control the energy of the springs - either in the form of shocks/struts with or without threads on the outside – and there is a VAST selection of valving – adjustable or nonadjustable - one can choose from. The precise match between and spring rate and spring control is what makes a particular suspension setup handle better or worse, or the ride more or less comfortable.
There is no “best” suspension setup for everyone.
Coilovers have no inherent impact on ride quality.
Coilovers offer no noticeable advantage to the average driver during the every day commute.
Coilovers, can help those that race corner balance their car – this is their advantage.


Chris
*edit to add additional text


[Modified by f1forkvr6, 8:02 PM 2-4-2003]
 

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Re: What is better ride quality? Coil overs or springs? (f1forkvr6)

Ok, so if the spring rates on a set of KW Variant I's is lower than a set of Eibach Sportlines, than the KW's will give a less harsh ride ? I apologize for not understanding this, but it's a little confusing because I don't know who to listen to.
I either want to go Sportlines paired with Koni yellows, or KW V1's..The only thing is that I would have to mess around with the settings of the Koni yellows if I went and bought them with the Sportlines, which i'd rather not do, mainly because I don't know how to match springs & shocks. If I'm correct, both setups use Koni shocks, and I think that shocks play a part in ride quality as well..I'm liking the idea of coilovers because they are perfectly matched, and I won't have to mess with adjusting them too much, thus the reason I don't want dampening adjustability....Please help in any way...I'm going to try and get some spring rates later, but thanks for any advice..My main concern is what the ride is like on coils set to the same height as a spring/shock combo...I'm still trying to find someone aound here with some setups to give me a ride



[Modified by G3T3I7, 12:36 AM 2-13-2003]
 

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Re: What is better ride quality? Coil overs or springs? (G3T3I7)

I think you're unlikely to find the answer in this thread, as it's really about
theory. I'd suggest a seperate thread. Need to find someone who's got the combination
you're considering. The point of this thread was.. coilovers usually match springs to dampers well,
hopefully match spring rates to the car (although I suspect less often than
folks think), and mixing up your own springs and dampers you're pretty much on
your own. Certainly if you spend the same kind of money on springs/dampers
that one does on coilovers they'd damn well better get everything perfectly
matched. It's totally doable. Some kits do it for you, some don't.
ian
 

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Re: What is better ride quality? Coil overs or springs? (GTItraveler)

Call shine, talk with Eli and tell him what you are after. They can source MANY different springs -- different rates/free lengths -- they have coilover sleeves if they cannot source the exact rate/length combination you are after. If they cannot meet your needs, he generally won't BS you. He's a good dude to talk to, and if you call late enough in the morning you may even find Dick (Shine) in the office -- and he's a HOOT to talk to! They really know their stuff. You've got nothing to lose, and stand to at least gain some good information. Good luck -- I know these decisions, can be agonizing ... nobody wants buyers remorse.
 

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Re: What is better ride quality? Coil overs or springs? (f1forkvr6)

I can't remember where I read that the 337 springs are the same rates (or thereabout) as the Eibach springs, sold as aftermarket springs in European VW dealerships........ And perhaps the stiffest springs VW ever put as OE on a Golf. Is that info true? Knowing the exact rate of those springs may help "GTItraveler" a lot in choosing the right for him shocks.....
 

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Re: What is better ride quality? Coil overs or springs? (f1forkvr6)

f1forkvr6: Thanks for the suggestion to call Shine. I had already talked to Eli and they didn't have a spring that would maintain the stock 337 ride height. However, he was extremely helpful and talked to me about various options (which I mentioned in my post) in an effort to solve my situation. A big http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for Shine's customer service and Eli, even when they didn't have a product to meet my needs. That is the mark of a shop that takes pride in what they do!
 

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Re: What is better ride quality? Coil overs or springs? (G3T3I7)

quote:[HR][/HR]Ok, so if the spring rates on a set of KW Variant I's is lower than a set of Eibach Sportlines, than the KW's will give a less harsh ride ? I apologize for not understanding this, but it's a little confusing because I don't know who to listen to.
I either want to go Sportlines paired with Koni yellows, or KW V1's..The only thing is that I would have to mess around with the settings of the Koni yellows if I went and bought them with the Sportlines, which i'd rather not do, mainly because I don't know how to match springs & shocks. If I'm correct, both setups use Koni shocks, and I think that shocks play a part in ride quality as well..I'm liking the idea of coilovers because they are perfectly matched, and I won't have to mess with adjusting them too much, thus the reason I don't want dampening adjustability....Please help in any way...I'm going to try and get some spring rates later, but thanks for any advice..My main concern is what the ride is like on coils set to the same height as a spring/shock combo...I'm still trying to find someone aound here with some setups to give me a ride


[Modified by G3T3I7, 12:36 AM 2-13-2003][HR][/HR]​
MojoPowered on the Vortex has an Mk4 with Eibach Sportlines and Koni Adjustables. I have ridden in his car with his Konis set at full soft. It was still very firm and controlled. Completely different ride than stock. At the time I had B+G coils on my Mk4 and we both agreed that my coils seemed to be a bit more comfy. Just some more thoughts...
 

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Re: What is better ride quality? Coil overs or springs? (G3T3I7)

quote:[HR][/HR]......I need to hear some more info
[HR][/HR]​
Personally, I think you will NEVER find out the answers from reading through posts. It is like having sex through the Internet - what do you feel? Nothing! You do not know the people, you do not know their criteria, you do not know their style of driving, experience, preferences, etc....... No one can help you on this via words! The only reliable info you can get is that this spring lowers more than that one, because it is relatively easy to compare, even through a picture........ For the rest - forget about accurate info that will do for you and your case!
The only suggestion I could give you, is to go and get whatever you think is good for you and try it yourself, on your car. It is good point to start. Then try something else, so you will be able ONLY THEN to compare the two setups. Then sell the one you do not like, or try another one, etc. At the end you lose some money from the trade, but you got what you really want and that is priceless! Took me 5 setups to get the right one for me and my driving .......
Good luck!
 
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