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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fuel efficient cars?
Many people claim to be concerned about national security and foreign policy issues. But do they realize that oil money sent to unstable or poorly government countries can find its way into terrorists' hands, as well as making the problems of those countries our problems?
Many people claim to be concerned about the trade deficit? Do they realize that fuel guzzling means more money buying imported oil to increase the trade deficit?
Many people claim to be concerned about environmental issues. Do they realize that fuel guzzling means more global warming, pollution, and using up of finite resources?
Seems like many do not. They claim that they "need" an SUV for single occupant commuting on paved roads, and large engines with automatic transmissions for occasional city driving. Or they believe that "bigger is always better" in terms of safety, not realizing that bigger often means worse handling and worse ability to avoid a crash.
 

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Re: Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fuel efficient cars? (tjl)

People like to be in favor of something that sounds good until it's time for them to make a sacrifice.
Then again some people just aren't very well informed.
Someone told me the other day that they cared about the environment and education and that's why they support bu$h
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fuel ... (jimix)

Quote, originally posted by jimix »
People like to be in favor of something that sounds good until it's time for them to make a sacrifice.

Of course, some people may consider it to be a sacrifice to have to refuel the car every 300 miles, instead of 500-700 miles that a more fuel efficient car can go between refuelings.
Quote »

Then again some people just aren't very well informed.
Someone told me the other day that they cared about the environment and education and that's why they support bu$h

Of course, it isn't that unusual to see pro-war, anti-war, buy American, and environmentalist bumper stickers on the bumpers of thirsty vehicles...
 

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Re: Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fuel ... (tjl)

Diesel is really a foreign concept to most americans. Plus I know that here in CHicago only about 25% of the stations carry diesel.
Hybrid wise, American people depend on big vehicles to move their families around and to do a lot of work. most hybrids to date have been small cars and unpractical (honda insight anyone
) and not until recently have manufacturers started to think about making bigger hybrid cars. The new Prius is a big step in the right direction, it's fairly big and comfortable and they're selling like hotcakes.
 

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Most people concerned about the trade deficit focus on the trade deficit with China specifically.
The hybrid Ford Escape will certainly sell like mad - just like the Prius is now doing... you're not going to make American's European - they're not going to buy diesel. Make hybrids more American - ie. the Ford Escape.
And yes for some of us filling up every 600 is a sacrifice - I drove a friends Prius last week - it's no WRX.


Modified by serrano at 8:22 AM 5-18-2004
 

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Re: (vw86gti)

Yep, we've proven that technology from the 70's hasn't harmed the alaskan ecosystems like the Enviroweenies claimed, so just imagine what we could do with today's technology! I agree, we need to stop bitching when we're not taking advantage of our own reserves.
 

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Re: (rbloedow)

People become convinced that there is only one technological way to solve a problem. It's often what they're used to, or what they own, or what their personal preference is.
But I also think that people fail to realize that there is a lot of good out there. A Honda Accord V6 sedan gets over 30 mpg on the highway; I could see 33 mpg on the highway with my wagon if I kept off the fun pedal. A lot of good can also come from technology or market choices that we already have.
Tom
 

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Re: Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fuel efficient cars? (tjl)

1. Because they are the antithesis of what defines fun-to-drive as far as the engine is concerned. It is all about sound & high RPM. I don't care if a diesel needs less to rev. I want ot rev it. Also Diesels stink. Tacatacatac.

2. They are not viable, economically. As long tthat you won't see them in fleets, forget it. Strictly for gadget lovers.
If carmakers want to be innovative in introducing attracting new products, they must make them attractive for their raison d'être; saving money in this case. They don't. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
 

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Re: Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fu ... (Saintor)

It goes deeper than that. Back in the fuel crunch of the mid-70s. What diesel passenger vehicles there were belched soot, knocked and stunk. (think Rabbit diesel and MB TDs). Detroit, specifically Chevy, in an effort to rush diesel passenger vehicles to market actually made a diesel V8s out of it's V-8 by upping the compression to 20:1 and bolting on diesel heads. These Impalas and Caprices ran terribly and understandably died before they reached 50k miles. Such was the taste of diesel left in the mouth of the American public. If I were selling the concept of diesel today, I would set up drives in every shopping mall and public venue they would allow and let casual passersby jump in a drive, then tell them afterwards "it's a diesel and it gets X mpg."
 

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Re: Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fu ... (Saintor)

Quote, originally posted by Saintor »
1. Because they are the antithesis of what defines fun-to-drive as far as the engine is concerned. It is all about sound & high RPM. I don't care if a diesel needs less to rev. I want ot rev it

And we all know YOU speak for the motoring public.
 

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Re: Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fu ... (PackRat)

Have fun driving your tractor engine.
Most soccer moms won't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fu ... (Saintor)

Quote, originally posted by Saintor »

2. They are not viable, economically. As long tthat you won't see them in fleets, forget it. Strictly for gadget lovers.

Your favorite cars must be the Ford Taurus and Chevrolet Classic, then (since they are huge fleet cars).
Quote »
If carmakers want to be innovative in introducing attracting new products, they must make them attractive for their raison d'être; saving money in this case. They don't. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif

The Prius has midsize interior room and hatchback utility. It costs about the same as a midsize Camry or other midsize car. So would you say that a Prius cannot save money compared to other midsize cars?
Of course the Echo is lower overall cost than just about any new car. But that gets back to the original question, since the Echo is another fuel efficient car (just not diesel or hybrid) that isn't very popular in the US.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fu ... (Saintor)

Quote, originally posted by Saintor »
Have fun driving your tractor engine.
Most soccer moms won't.

How many soccer moms rev their engines past 4000rpm?
 

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Re: Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fu ... (tjl)

Actually, Saintor, the vast majority of municipal fleets in the US use cars that can run on CNG and Methanol in addition to Gasoline. This makes them much more efficient in the long run and efficiency is what fleets are about.
You may not see these cars in rental fleets - but that's a different animal.
Frankly Diesels are more efficient and, thanks to modern technology, can now safely rev. Even some old diesels, like the VW 1.6, can safely rev a little. But clearly your experience is very limited - because if it wasn't, you'd know that there are a great many gasoline cars which cannot rev very high but which make big power and torque numbers. Try on a 455 GTO before you tell me about how bad low-revving, torque-monster engines are.
Or, for that matter, try the new Honda Accord Diesel over in Europe, which can rev beyond the safety limit of that old GTO.
 

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Re: Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fuel ... (jimix)

Quote, originally posted by jimix »
some people just aren't very well informed.
 

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Re: Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fuel efficient cars? (tjl)

Quote, originally posted by tjl »
Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fuel efficient cars?

Because gasoline is still cheap and fuel efficiency is not a large factor in the purchasing desicions of the vast majority of North American car shoppers. Until it does, alternative technology vehicles will not be taken seriously.
 

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Re: Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fu ... (Bahnburner)

Quote, originally posted by Bahnburner »
It goes deeper than that. Back in the fuel crunch of the mid-70s. What diesel passenger vehicles there were belched soot, knocked and stunk. (think Rabbit diesel and MB TDs). Detroit, specifically Chevy, in an effort to rush diesel passenger vehicles to market actually made a diesel V8s out of it's V-8 by upping the compression to 20:1 and bolting on diesel heads. These Impalas and Caprices ran terribly and understandably died before they reached 50k miles. Such was the taste of diesel left in the mouth of the American public. If I were selling the concept of diesel today, I would set up drives in every shopping mall and public venue they would allow and let casual passersby jump in a drive, then tell them afterwards "it's a diesel and it gets X mpg."

This is always brought up when diesel cars are mentioned. I've never heard anyone young or old really express this idea. If anything most people have bad feelings about ALL fuel-crisis cars. I mean my dad drove a crappy Chevette, and doesn't hate all Chevys today because of that experience. Even the Mustangs and Camaros of the era were putting out 150hp tops with highly detuned V8s, do you hear people complain about them now?
Diesel's real problem is it's lack of marketing. I see Prius ads in every major publication. They run great PR and have articles and news stories all over the place. What does VW have? A magazine ad telling how much it costs per mile, then how much it costs after you get a ticket so artsy 20 year olds can be like "har har, They are trying to say that you can go fast and get great fuel economy, I feel so much smarter for having figured that one out." Forget that. When a company with a real marketing plan can show the benefits to Joe and Jane America, maybe then you will see it take off.
As far as people not buying hybrids/diesels as much, it probably has to do with the high cost compared to the savings in fuel. You can get 40mpg+ in an Echo that costs $12k. The Civic HX and other compact cars like the Scion xA also return pretty good mileage. You'd have to drive a ton of miles to make up the difference in cost between those and a TDI/Hybrid Civic. As others have said, if you shop smart, even regular V6 sedans can get 30mpg, while providing excellent performance, something most hybrids and diesels can't.
-Andrew
 

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Re: Why are some people in the US so opposed to diesel, hybrid, and other fuel efficient cars? (tjl)

Diesel is dirty - nobody has found a way to make desiel emissions comply with upcoming particulate limits. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
 

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Re: (vw86gti)

Quote, originally posted by vw86gti »
We need to tap Alaska...I'm sick of all the whining.

You don't know what you are talking about. The oil in the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge is miniscule. It will require hefty subsidies to get it. The only reason oil companies want to tap it now is because they are afraid of being left behind by the administration when there's an oil free for all. It's not profitable for them, and doesn't make sense in any way. SO STOP YOUR WHINING ABOUT ISSUES YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT, SHEEPLE.
 
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