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I know several people who have turbo'd their G60. I dont know a single person who regrets it.
I'm in the middle of a Turbo Conversion myself. Guess I'll see what happens. :confused:

I'm doing a crossflow head, on a 9:1 1.8 bottom end. Running a straight T3 50trim (a bit under the normal 60 trim) I'm trying to be realistic about my peak numbers, and the cars driveability. Even though I still will run Nitrous on it, and my friends were pushing for a big dirty T3/T4 since nitrous can spool it almost instantly. I was trying to keep a decent driver with a fast spool. With the Gladder it pulled great from 3000rpm on, and I'd like to keep that. I'd be more then happy if it could put down 200whp off spray, and 250whp on.
 

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There has been guys that have twin charged on here. Both with a turbo and a supercharger, and one guy with 2 Gladder!

Thinking about this thread now, it's not even titled correctly. The 8v was never technically designed or engineered for a supercharger. If you look at the engine family and what VW did with them. They offered the diesel's in turbo, and the the Audi 5 cyl, which is really a 8v counterflow with another cylinder on the end, and it came turbo well before VW fitted the G60 with a supercharger. There was probably a very specific reason why VW did what they did, but who really knows? Really a K24 or K26 woudl have took them rallye racing just the same, and proven more reliable for us the end user.

The thread is more of a general debate of Turbo's vs Superchargers.
 

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Orig owner 90 g60, 02 allroad 6SP M w/ 3rd Row, 07 3X White NB Vert, 09 Escalade ESV Plat to tow em
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Unrelated but lysholm specific. 07 Chevy Tahoe with a lysholm twin screw @ 8lb & 400hp.

 

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Discussion Starter · #149 ·
I have had this one out for nearly 15 years now and still no takers and there never will be, lol :D
$1000 bucks on the table to beat the BBM Twin Screw with a turbo in the 1/8 mile or 1/4 mile.
This is using an internally stock 1.8L PG 8v engine on the factory management.
Same tires, same diff, same weight car.
This is not about building a $100k no limit single digit race car against this engine.... :what:
 

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I have had this one out for nearly 15 years now and still no takers and there never will be, lol :D
$1000 bucks on the table to beat the BBM Twin Screw with a turbo in the 1/8 mile or 1/4 mile.
This is using an internally stock 1.8L PG 8v engine on the factory management.
Same tires, same diff, same weight car.
This is not about building a $100k no limit single digit race car against this engine.... :what:
So what time did it run in the 1/4? And on what tires? What are the specs on the car exactly?

After finishing my swap to turbo, this is no way in hell I would ever want to go back to a G-lader. Only a +40hp increase at the same exact boost levels, on the same exact management. Lysolm might be a different story with higher CFM and/or efficiency, but this song and dance is dead. Turbos's won. The biggest catch to this challenge is literally nobody is going to build that engine anymore. There is no reason to do a turbo PG, when you have the bigger displacement, better head design ABA's lying around every junkyard. Hell there probably isn't that many PG or Digifant 1 cars kicking around North America anymore, period. I probably came the closest in recent years doing a 1.8 bottom end, running Digi 1 still, but I still switched to a ABA head for obvious reasons. Why would I use a counter flow head and make life harder then it has to be. Same kinda goes for Digi 1, it's already a stumbling point, (already forced to use an extra injector to keep from leaning out at high boost) and standalone is very likely my next purchase.

Hell we have a whole thread on the 'tex about turbo ABA's making 200- 300whp, and even 400whp+. Several of them are 12 and 11 second cars, there is a 10 second ABA turbo rabbit (open diff 020 I believe). And yeah we can argue semantics, and say these aren't PG's, but they are awfully close in design. What I'm getting at it is, if in some weird parallel universe 9 out of 10 mk3's had a PG in them, then we would see PG turbo's putting out 300-400whp and not these ABA's. Then your challenge would have long been smashed.

Not to mention it's a pretty stacked challenge, it preys on the weakness of Digifant 1 not being able to supply enough fuel at high boost level, you almost need to use a supercharger and make the power under the curve, where you can keep enough fuel in it. The turbo car would make it's ground at high rpm/high boost, where Digifant just isn't capable.

Much prefer turbo noise to Lysholm whine too. It would be hard to live with a twin screw on a car I drive as much as I do my Jetta.
 

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I just repurchased the lysholm silencer kit I sold a few months ago. A lysholm was thrown into a package deal with it. Oh God, this car is gonna fly when it's done. 2014 was a year of parts hunting. 2015 is build time!
 

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Discussion Starter · #152 · (Edited)
So what time did it run in the 1/4? And on what tires? What are the specs on the car exactly?

After finishing my swap to turbo, this is no way in hell I would ever want to go back to a G-lader. Only a +40hp increase at the same exact boost levels, on the same exact management. Lysolm might be a different story with higher CFM and/or efficiency, but this song and dance is dead. Turbos's won. The biggest catch to this challenge is literally nobody is going to build that engine anymore. There is no reason to do a turbo PG, when you have the bigger displacement, better head design ABA's lying around every junkyard. Hell there probably isn't that many PG or Digifant 1 cars kicking around North America anymore, period. I probably came the closest in recent years doing a 1.8 bottom end, running Digi 1 still, but I still switched to a ABA head for obvious reasons. Why would I use a counter flow head and make life harder then it has to be. Same kinda goes for Digi 1, it's already a stumbling point, (already forced to use an extra injector to keep from leaning out at high boost) and standalone is very likely my next purchase.

Hell we have a whole thread on the 'tex about turbo ABA's making 200- 300whp, and even 400whp+. Several of them are 12 and 11 second cars, there is a 10 second ABA turbo rabbit (open diff 020 I believe). And yeah we can argue semantics, and say these aren't PG's, but they are awfully close in design. What I'm getting at it is, if in some weird parallel universe 9 out of 10 mk3's had a PG in them, then we would see PG turbo's putting out 300-400whp and not these ABA's. Then your challenge would have long been smashed.

Not to mention it's a pretty stacked challenge, it preys on the weakness of Digifant 1 not being able to supply enough fuel at high boost level, you almost need to use a supercharger and make the power under the curve, where you can keep enough fuel in it. The turbo car would make it's ground at high rpm/high boost, where Digifant just isn't capable.

Much prefer turbo noise to Lysholm whine too. It would be hard to live with a twin screw on a car I drive as much as I do my Jetta.
In 2007 we held an event at the Woodburn drag-strip called the Autoblitzkrieg.
The same offer was on the table for the Mk3 platform.
I believe someone called me a tool or a db in another thread.... been awhile now :)
We ran two identical Mk3 GTI's one with the BBM Twin Screw Stage III and the other was the Stage III Kinetic turbo kit.
The turbo car made I believe 30-40 more wheel hp......didn't help it any, lol :D
Both cars ran the same tires and were in street trim with LSD installed.
The BBM Supercharger car beat the turbo car by over 1 full second.
We won the 2004 1.8T challenge against 15 of the top tuner cars in the nation with a large twin screw, some from out of county.
When you start talking about 400 hp this and 10 second that or even single digit cars....that is not what this challange is or ever was about.
It is about taking apples to apples cars one with turbo and one with the twin screw.
We have raced against some pretty high budget 8v race cars....takes allot of money to make them quick with a turbo.
The Mk3 twin screw kit is not very loud at all, the t-body is before the charger inlet. It is about half the sound of the G60 set up.
We have a new kit in the works this year on an undisclosed engine platform using the 500bhp head unit. It too will be pretty quiet with the t-body at the inlet side of the compressor.
And yes there are still a ton of 8v cars running on factory management. We sell tons of parts for these cars every day of the week 24/7 :)
By the way I also like a nice turbo set up, both are fun but also very different.
Thanks for your post.
 

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There's also such a thing as the real world that needs to be taken into consideration.

I've been to the track in my old 1.8t and vs. friends, who had more mods than I did, was able to clip times about .8 to 1sec faster. Quarter mile times can vary greatly between drivers and individual cars. It would be helpful to have time slips to compare differences in 60' times and trap speeds.

Also, if a supercharger head unit breaks, you are pretty much SOL. You hold the lot of old used rebuilt auto rotor units and historically do not sell them individually...unless the customer purchased the whole kit from you....and that is even if you have any in stock at the time.

A new t series journal bearing oil lubricated turbo goes for around $800-950 bucks. What of your new kit, if you do base it on the aba motor I assume it will be a new sprintex unit? What do those go for? 3k range? pass. I don't really get where you come up with the (aba takes a lot of money to make quick with a turbo." Its essentially the same exact parts minus the head unit/turbo. You have also said yourself that you do not warranty the stage 3 kits and you are going into the "grey area" when spinning them up to 15psi. A turbo can RELIABLY make 15-20 PSI for a long time.

So yeah, I see the case for people going turbo over S/C.

:popcorn:
 

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Discussion Starter · #154 · (Edited)
Yes we have had some isolated issues with customers over driving our old Opcon units
We have a few of these left new old stock and that will be then end of these units.

Many people would knowingly over drive these units to over 20 psi and over 20k rpm.

Our new and larger Twin Screw Sprintex RS300 will make over 20psi without going past the manufactures recommend 15k rpm limit.
Not sure how much boost we will see with the even larger RS500 units... time will tell.
These will be available this spring.
 

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You'll put about 2k of skin into the game between manifold, turbo and downpipe. There are still people out there making manifolds, and used ones have become hard to find.

20psi from a charger on this motor....im assuming that would be your higher stage kit. Hope it comes with a decent set of rods...20psi with that much CFM will create a LOT of torque at the lower range...rod bend territory.

I would still sleep better knowing that at the end of the day, if my turbo breaks it also does not break my bank...but I may be biased based on my broken supercharger experience.
 

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Turbo pricing and availability is another huge factor I didn't even touch on. That's what ultimately lead me to do a turbo conversion, and luckily, no regrets whatsoever. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #157 · (Edited)
Turbo pricing and availability is another huge factor I didn't even touch on. That's what ultimately lead me to do a turbo conversion, and luckily, no regrets whatsoever. :D
Yes as noted the turbo conversion can work and run ok for some people on the G60.
We have sold plenty of turbo kits and also installed them on the G60
Very hit and miss running a turbo on digifant.
Definitely the slower set up running a turbo on a G60 8v
By the way, this is the G60 PG 8v forum, not ABA
And there is no ABA turbo kit on the market....
 

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You're the one who brought up mk3's and the Auto rotor units vs. Kinetic in your own thread...figured it was fair game. Kinetic stopped making the kit...boo hoo...manifolds are available. Still tons of people Turboing ABA's

Like G60 said, there are very few PG motors in USA kicking around. Far less that have even tried to do a turbo conversion.

Just listing the benefits of going turbo...easy upgradeability to larger internal turbo's etc., boost pressure changes on demand (not having to change pulleys), Historic reliability and the turbo itself is far less expensive...there's more too. Also like G60 said, Turbo's won the game. Not to say that superchargers cant be cool...But there are definite reason why turbo's are more popular. As usual, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
 

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Discussion Starter · #159 · (Edited)
The title does not say Turbo VS. Supercharger

Yes and we smoked the ABA 8v turbo kit at the track with our supercharger too, also on the 1.8T :eek:

Definitely boo hoo for most people if they want a turbo. Not too many people have the time tools or knowledge to build a forced induction set up from scratch.
I sold a couple of ABA 8v turbo hardware only set ups over the last 30 days. Just hardware alone came in at nearly $3k
This did not include intercooler tubing, intake or down pipe fabrication and fitment.
Doing a good turbo set up from scratch takes way more time and money than people lead on in here.

Yes there are way more turbos out there. Superchargers are more expensive to integrate and require engineering, rather than just bolting a turbo onto a manifold.
A good turbo that might have a chance to compete with a twin screw supercharger is about the same price as a good supercharger head unit.

The real point of the thread is to explain the engineering that went into the G60 engine and management that is in support of a supercharger.
 

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By the way, this is the G60 PG 8v forum, not ABA
Yeah, but my car is officially powered by nothing now.

It's 1.8 bottom end (9:1) with an ABA OBDII 'German' or 'S' head,(Ported, TT-HD springs, Schrick 272), and running on SNS chipped Digifant I, and single fogger wet.

So it's not an ABA, it's not a G60, it's not an 8v, it's a tiny bit of all three. So I browse/post in all 3 forums. ;)
 
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