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You're the one who brought up mk3's and the Auto rotor units vs. Kinetic in your own thread...figured it was fair game. Kinetic stopped making the kit...boo hoo...manifolds are available. Still tons of people Turboing ABA's

Like G60 said, there are very few PG motors in USA kicking around. Far less that have even tried to do a turbo conversion.

Just listing the benefits of going turbo...easy upgradeability to larger internal turbo's etc., boost pressure changes on demand (not having to change pulleys), Historic reliability and the turbo itself is far less expensive...there's more too. Also like G60 said, Turbo's won the game. Not to say that superchargers cant be cool...But there are definite reason why turbo's are more popular. As usual, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
I haven't had any issues finding a PG motor after blowing up the last 3 :p

Funny that people still bite the bait of this thread years later. Fact is that John has PROOF that apples to apples bolt on kit vs bolt on kit the Lysholm OWNED.

From my own personal experience I NEVER lost a race with my PG Lysholm setup against any of the local ABA turbo guys with my lysholm bolt on kit at 17psi and still using the factory intercooler. I remember way way back Renner had built my buddies G60 with a T3 Super 60 setup. He spent a TON of money for those guys to build his car. First night out at the races I was hurting his ego so bad he kept turning up the boost until he popped the motor :O

We get it that you guys like your Turbo setups but try not to get so butt hurt over this thread because unfortunately as stated previously John has the proof to back up his claims.
 

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Discussion Starter · #162 ·
This got washed into a BBM twin screw plug.
Not the real point of this thread, a part of it though :)
I mentioned this earlier in the thread
The best choice for this engine is the good old g-lader or another positive displacement supercharger.
That is, unless you want to go for lower performance and a high chance of running issues with turbo+ digifant.
 

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Orig owner 90 g60, 02 allroad 6SP M w/ 3rd Row, 07 3X White NB Vert, 09 Escalade ESV Plat to tow em
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Drop a 1.8t from an early A4 or Mk IV (AEB, AGU) 20V engineered to run a turbo. HP increases are available at a linear rate that graduate with cost = WIN.

It works we'll because that's what those 20V motors were designed for. John's point is that 1.8T vs 1.8 g lader (PG) vs a 1.8 (PG) swap'd to a turbo are different animals. Every time someone throws a turbo on a PG motor they're already behind what a 1.8T motor swap would do for the car in comparable dollars. The flow rate of a 2V PG head is so far behind a 5V AEB it's not funny. It's rewarding to get a 1.8 PG to out perform a g lader car. It can be done, and there's nothing wrong with doing it. It's best said that a turbo PG motor needs more dyno numbers and a build list to accurately calculate an apples to apples comparison for a clear winner in this thread.


BTW sorry to get all geeked up about the lysholm in this thread. It's a magic potion for the g60 with an intoxicating swan song. It gives the g60 big swinging balls and legend status as they become less common.
 

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ok jbetz, I've been following this thread forever for the amusement I guess. It is pretty funny. These motors, like you say, are "tank like" built, almost exact looking to the 1.6 diesels and 1.7l. I've never upgraded the bottom ends, other than hardware, They are plenty strong. I'm bored and game for your challenge. Lay your rules down, and be detailed. What are your numbers? hp/tq, qt mile?

Motor has to be totally stock? no arp, no cam, no timing gear, no porting?
ecm=digi 1? stock, stock map sensor, no sensor mods, injectors? tuning?
trans? code, gear ratio, diff, poor man posi, stock axles?
tires? street, drag radial, slicks?
platform? mk1,2, corrado? weight? mods?

My current setup is:
83 gti 1800lbs, 1950 rtr
14" mt drag radials
gy 4 speed trans, w/ poor man posi, stock axles
stock internal pg no port work, arp hardware all around, 276 cam, cam gear
precision 5431 running 30lbs
Good ol' budget digi 1 tuned by me (thanks to the guys on ecu connections for getting me started, you know who you are:thumbup:), 3 bar map, 2 step
3.5bar fpr, 42lb fm injectors

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16090118893/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16502778237/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16710068665/

Match my setup? or i'll compromise to yours? either way I'm staying mk1, that's what I own a lot of. I'll add weight if needed.

Let the fun begin
 

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From my own personal experience I NEVER lost a race with my PG Lysholm setup against any of the local ABA turbo guys
Maybe you just have a bunch of slow local guys?

The Turbo ABA thread is full of cars running anywhere from 10's (Drag rabbit) to low 15's. (full weight, low boost MK3) Several like Daskoupes MK2, are just stock junkyard ABA's. That car has ran many 12.2's.
 

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ok jbetz, I've been following this thread forever for the amusement I guess. It is pretty funny. These motors, like you say, are "tank like" built, almost exact looking to the 1.6 diesels and 1.7l. I've never upgraded the bottom ends, other than hardware, They are plenty strong. I'm bored and game for your challenge. Lay your rules down, and be detailed. What are your numbers? hp/tq, qt mile?

Motor has to be totally stock? no arp, no cam, no timing gear, no porting?
ecm=digi 1? stock, stock map sensor, no sensor mods, injectors? tuning?
trans? code, gear ratio, diff, poor man posi, stock axles?
tires? street, drag radial, slicks?
platform? mk1,2, corrado? weight? mods?

My current setup is:
83 gti 1800lbs, 1950 rtr
14" mt drag radials
gy 4 speed trans, w/ poor man posi, stock axles
stock internal pg no port work, arp hardware all around, 276 cam, cam gear
precision 5431 running 30lbs
Good ol' budget digi 1 tuned by me (thanks to the guys on ecu connections for getting me started, you know who you are:thumbup:), 3 bar map, 2 step
3.5bar fpr, 42lb fm injectors

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16090118893/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16502778237/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16710068665/

Match my setup? or i'll compromise to yours? either way I'm staying mk1, that's what I own a lot of. I'll add weight if needed.

Let the fun begin
Nice setup!
 

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Discussion Starter · #168 ·
Maybe you just have a bunch of slow local guys?

The Turbo ABA thread is full of cars running anywhere from 10's (Drag rabbit) to low 15's. (full weight, low boost MK3) Several like Daskoupes MK2, are just stock junkyard ABA's. That car has ran many 12.2's.
This one seems to always go way off point and topic.
This is not about building the quickest all in 8v 1/4 mile car.
It is about running equal cars, stock engines and stock management running off the shelf bolt on forced induction kits.
There is no off the shelf ABA kit at this time, when there was we beat it.
The majority of people do not build these one-off 1/4 mile set ups.
I do love seeing super quick FWD 1/4 mile cars.
These challenges have already been done on the PG and the ABA, also time attack style on the 1.8T
At this time we are working on supercharger projects on engines with more than 8 valves.
If you have a G60 PG engine just keep in mind that if you go turbo your car will be slower than a good g-lader and might possibly run really bad. If you want a smoking fast PG 8v, there is nothing on planet earth quicker than a BBM Twin Screw :)
 

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Why the emphasis on discrediting cars that have been built and not an off the shelf kit?

Just because it doesn't fit within the confines of your "game" does not make it irrelevant. And a high horsepower aba or PG turbo is not a "1/4 mile car" one trick pony. I would argue that these turbo cars are more daily driveable, reliable and streetable than the highest horsepower, stage 3 or more, BBM car.

Im saying this because stage 3 18psi or 20psi on a autorotor, like you have said, is like "predicting Chaos" and going past the "Engineered limits"



Put a journal bearing t3/t4 up to 20 psi all day long. Garrets are usually bullet proof. Put $1000 on that one.
 

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Lysholm

Interesting topic.
Im a fan of both Supercharged & Turbo Old motor I built
Twin Screw 8V PG motor....... LOVED IT INSTANT POWER...... Was never beat that I could recall versus 500 to 600HP Turbo Hondas Muscle Cars and even a Tesla at Socal Euro etc:laugh:




New Motor I just built now for ****s and giggles which is about to come out of my car to go back to a Lysholm 16v with Bigger BBM Lysholm Unit on Megasquirt!


Please don't get me wrong either turbos are fun but not like a charger! Just my .02 but im old and still playing with 20+Year old motors;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #172 ·
I like both a good turbo car and supercharged engine too :)
My daily driver right now is a turbo car, I've owned a half dozen or more now.
Turbo does really well with the double clutch cars....helps to keep in the booost.
We also sell parts for turbo customers every single day.
Point of the thread as the title states "G60 8v"
My next 4 cyl. project is with the big RS-500 unit
Jeff that thing is ridiculous and I see some BBM turbo parts on there!
 

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thanks, its budget built less than 2k into it. some ebay china stuff, some good stuff. that setup is for the 1/4 and street pulls. I use a smaller turbo for auto cross. takes under an hour to switch it out.
that's a lot of stuff under the hood jeff, but clean:thumbup:. 16vt is sick too!! I love the old motors they take a lot more abuse, and are cheap.

im still in to play the turbo game whats the magic number?
 

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thanks, its budget built less than 2k into it. some ebay china stuff, some good stuff. that setup is for the 1/4 and street pulls. I use a smaller turbo for auto cross. takes under an hour to switch it out.
that's a lot of stuff under the hood jeff, but clean:thumbup:. 16vt is sick too!! I love the old motors they take a lot more abuse, and are cheap.

im still in to play the turbo game whats the magic number?
Ive been avoiding it lately cause been trying to finish my caddy but we played with it on my fabricators shop dyno which is all wheel drive mustang dyno. at 10 psi it made 327HP 22psi putting down 406HP and kept smoking tires so we stopped tuning gonna go back with my slicks on it. Not fully tuned yet either but in no hurry.
 

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ok jbetz, I've been following this thread forever for the amusement I guess. It is pretty funny. These motors, like you say, are "tank like" built, almost exact looking to the 1.6 diesels and 1.7l. I've never upgraded the bottom ends, other than hardware, They are plenty strong. I'm bored and game for your challenge. Lay your rules down, and be detailed. What are your numbers? hp/tq, qt mile?

Motor has to be totally stock? no arp, no cam, no timing gear, no porting?
ecm=digi 1? stock, stock map sensor, no sensor mods, injectors? tuning?
trans? code, gear ratio, diff, poor man posi, stock axles?
tires? street, drag radial, slicks?
platform? mk1,2, corrado? weight? mods?

My current setup is:
83 gti 1800lbs, 1950 rtr
14" mt drag radials
gy 4 speed trans, w/ poor man posi, stock axles
stock internal pg no port work, arp hardware all around, 276 cam, cam gear
precision 5431 running 30lbs
Good ol' budget digi 1 tuned by me (thanks to the guys on ecu connections for getting me started, you know who you are:thumbup:), 3 bar map, 2 step
3.5bar fpr, 42lb fm injectors

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16090118893/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16502778237/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16710068665/

Match my setup? or i'll compromise to yours? either way I'm staying mk1, that's what I own a lot of. I'll add weight if needed.

Let the fun begin
Before I switch to standalone, I'd love to hear how you got a 3 bar MAP to work with Digi 1. I'm pretty happy with how my car runs, but I'm at the limit of what I can run for boost levels. I'd like to be able to run 20, up to maybe even 25psi. I have the fuel system, intercooler, head work, cam, and even my current turbo would be happier at 20+. Digi 1 is what's holding me back from going to the next level. It's why I'm still relying on nitrous to get me to where I want to be.
 

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I was where your at a while ago when I built my aba 16vt before they were a though of swap. Digi 1 is a ok budget system for boost. It has it's limits, but can go pretty far. Its batch fired so all the injectors spray at once not the greatest for economy but it works. My car gets 25-32 mpg depending how I drive.
Check out ecu connections a lot of good info is there. Pretty much soldier in a 3bar map sensor and change the linerization code of the maps. Remember Digi 1 uses the map sensor for quite a bit of operations, they all have to be changed. If your only looking for 22-25 lbs go with a 2.5 bar. That's what I use to run, no point in running a Bigger sensor if yor not using all the Cells in the map. You'll need a few things to do your own tuning but it's pretty easy. I'm not a software/coding engineer, if I figured it out anybody can just do some research.
I can help, but won't hold your hand. You wont learn anything that way;)
 

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Just adding some info about the head flow

there is a A head and P Head
and the P head has bigger vales and ports
and still plenty of meat for porting it a little bit bigger/better

for the rest interesting topic this learned a few things here :thumbup:
 

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I was where your at a while ago when I built my aba 16vt before they were a though of swap. Digi 1 is a ok budget system for boost. It has it's limits, but can go pretty far. Its batch fired so all the injectors spray at once not the greatest for economy but it works. My car gets 25-32 mpg depending how I drive.
Check out ecu connections a lot of good info is there. Pretty much soldier in a 3bar map sensor and change the linerization code of the maps. Remember Digi 1 uses the map sensor for quite a bit of operations, they all have to be changed. If your only looking for 22-25 lbs go with a 2.5 bar. That's what I use to run, no point in running a Bigger sensor if yor not using all the Cells in the map. You'll need a few things to do your own tuning but it's pretty easy. I'm not a software/coding engineer, if I figured it out anybody can just do some research.
I can help, but won't hold your hand. You wont learn anything that way;)
I thought about this, but then I realized it's not the best idea. Even if I bought my own eprom programmer, and soldered in a 3 bar, or adapted it to use an external MAP sensor. It would be a great experience, but I wouldn't be learning anything useful. Nothing I could to apply to other builds later on down the road.

Best to just learn MS2/MS3, Haltech, AEM EMS 4, or the like and go from there. If I decide to build a turbo Toyota down the road, at least that is experience I can take with me. Digifant hacking is a pretty niche skill.
 

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Hey Johnny

since i have reading this thread, I have a question.... how about supercharge a awp block, with g60 head ??


asking because I have the g60 with your stage 5 parts, with head, but I have a 1.8t awp block
have you ever done something like that ?

cheers
 
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