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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, so I've been playing around with the HKS SSQV that I got from ECS Tuning for a week now and have tried different things. Tom sent me some different things to try out with the valve too, among them a different insert that gives a lower sound, and fittings to make the BOV into a DV.
I tried the different insert and it was much quieter than the insert that comes with the valve. I will post pics up later this evening of everything. This insert is purple and has a circle in the middle rather than the three pointed star like the stock insert. I actually liked the stock insert a little better because it was obnoxiously loud and could be heard by everyone.
I actually had a kid in a Civic pull up next to me on Saturday night and ask me how much boost I was running when he heard it.
The second thing I tried out were the DV fittings. I have an Autothority intake on my car and I couldn't really hear the valve at all in DV mode. Less so than the Forge valve or even the stock DV. It runs flawless in DV, better than anything else if you ask me, but I don't know why you would spend all that money and then not have the added benifit of the sound, but that's just me. Definitely a viable alternative to those that buy this kit and wish to go back to DV mode, though.
The third thing I did was switch back to my stock DV to compare any differences in how the car ran. I first tested it with a vacuum tester to make sure it was functioning properly, and it was. The car ran the same with the stock DV as it did with the HKS SSQV. I got the same amount of pops from the exhaust as I did with the SSQV from the stock DV.
Also this past weekend, I did some track testing. Not drag strip but road course testing. The car ran beautifully on the track and actually was the second fastest VW out there, beat only by a car that had much more suspension tuning to me. I was running as fast as the slower S4s and I lapped an M3(E36). Here is a video of my fast timed lap. http://videos.dubspeedracing.com/zerin/feb_10_02/jon_jetta_lap.mpg
Note the BOV sound the car makes, you can hear it a few times. I will warn you that a faster connection is preferred for that video.
Last of all, and this is probably what everyone is waiting for, I figured out how the BOV works. I took it apart and looked at it and more importantly, I put a vacuum tester on it. You may ask, what is the significance of the vacuum tester. Well, at idle you engine is pulling vacuum, the wastegate is open, too, so you really aren't producing any boost so therefore there won't be any in the intake, or if there is it won't be much. I put the vacuum tester on the nipple that gives the valve the boost/vacuum signal. I pulled vacuum down on the valve and it does not open with just vacuum present there. What this means is that there also has to be boost present in the post turbo intake pipe in order for the valve to open. Therefore, at idle, the valve stays closed, which is the opposite of what every other DV or BOV does. This is why the HKS valve does not throw any CELs.
My car has been running fine with the HKS SSQV and I'm going to leave it that way. I like the way it sounds and performs. My gas mileage hasn't suffered either. My last tank recorded as being 23mpg, which is good for me and right on par with what I was doing with the Forge. I see no downsides really to running the HKS BOV, so there you have it, my opinion of ECS Tuning's BOV kit. Again, I'll post some more pics later on.



[Modified by houstonspeedfreek, 12:04 PM 2-11-2002]
 

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Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (houstonspeedfreek)

quote:[HR][/HR]at idle, the valve stays closed, which is the opposite of what every other DV or BOV does. [HR][/HR]​
if im wrong, by all means let me know, but wont this add resistance to spool up?
p.s. wish i had an open track like that around here



[Modified by opinion914, 10:17 AM 2-11-2002]
 

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Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (opinion914)

Well, when boost is present and the throttle plate closes, the valve opens as to not backspin the turbo. Since the turbo isn't pressurizing the intake and the valve doesn't have to close like any other vavle, there would be less lag time for it to close and pressurize the intake. I would think it would help reduce lag. This is what I experienced at least. Between shifts it felt like there was less lag to me.
 

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Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (houstonspeedfreek)

If the valve is shut during idle, where is the boost going. If there isn't excesive boost, that means the turbo is spinning slower. Sorry man, not trying to rain on your parade, but it still doesn't make any sense...
 

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Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (houstonspeedfreek)

So your telling me that the boost created by the turbo at idle, just...dissappears? The reason our motors idle in vacume in the first place is because the DV vents the excess boost. Either that, or the turbo is spinning too slow to make boost. So where is the boost going if the BOV is shut?
Like I said man, not trying to insult you, just trying to understand what your telling us...
 

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Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (houstonspeedfreek)

Thanks for the great follow up. I ordered mine last Thursday for my Jetta, and we will be test fitting it on my brothers TT to help Tom out to see if it fits on the Audi's. I can't wait to get it.
 

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Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (BMGBeetle)

Okay, here we go again.
A) The wastegate is open at idle so that the exhaust gasses bypass the turbo.
B) At idle, the engine runs on vacuum, not boost.
C) Even if there is boost produced at idle, the valve would open momentarily to vent it.
Do you need me to go on? Obviously it works and it works for other cars too. I've seen 600hp Supras that use the same valve, so obviously it works for what it is supposed to do.
 

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Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (BMGBeetle)

I am new here. Getting my new Jetta today. I do have some previous turbo experience with my '88 300zx turbo. I can answer your question about where the boost goes. The boost doesn't go anywhere because their is no significant boost at idle.
Turbos are spun by exhaust gases. At idle, the throttle plate is closed, so the engine only gets enough fuel and air to run at idle speed. That little bit of fuel does not produce a lot of exhaust pressure, so the turbo does not spin very fast. Even if their was no resistance on turbo, it would spin fairly slow.
A blow off valve is important when you shift gears. Say you are at wide open throttle and you take your foot off the throttle to change gears. The throttle plate closes while the turbo was producing a lot of boost. The pressure back on the compressor gets large and the turbo slows down a great deal. A blow off valve can vent this excess pressure or better yet recirculate it back into the intake so that the turbo doesn't stall. Lag is reduced once you get back on the throttle.
A BOV or recirculation valve is nice to have on a turbo, but not required. The 1st generation 300zx (z31) did not have any kind of BOV. It only ran about 6.5psi of boost, so it didn't really need one that bad.
I don't know the 1.8T engine management system very well yet. I would think you should recirculate any vented air so that the car doesn't run rich. The air flow meter measured that air going in and the system probably injects fuel for it. If the air is vented, too much fuel would go into the mixture.
I can't wait to learn about this new car. Will probably have questions later.
 

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Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (Brad_Jetta1.8T)

"Therefore, at idle, the valve stays closed, which is the opposite of what every other DV or BOV does. This is why the HKS valve does not throw any CELs."

This is where it doesn't make sense. Unless the turbo is spinning very slowly. If it were completely shut, you'd have boost. You say the little bit of excess boost created is vented by the wastegate. Where does the wastegate ventilation go?
Not doubting it works for you, but your explanation just doesn't hold water. I know there is signifacantly less combustion going on at idle, wich may explain the whole thing(the turbo could be spinning slow enough to be in vacume), but what about the rest of the rev range? How is it that at low rpms it makes no bost/vacume, but under the same conditions(BOV still shut)it suddenly makes boost at higher rpms?
Are the turbo's speed, and engine rpm not linear?
Do you have a VAG com to make sure it's not throwing codes?
 

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Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (BMGBeetle)

Wastegates do not vent boost on the compressor side. It vents the exhaust gases so that they do not spin the turbo. Your car produces exhaust gases that come out the exhaust valves and then go throught the exhaust pipes. The turbo impellor sits in the way of the exhaust pipe, so the exhaust gases spin the turbo on their way out of the car. The waste gate bypasses the turbo impellor so that it does not spin very much. It does not vent anything from the intake.
Because exhaust gases spin the turbo, it's speed is decoupled from the actual engine speed. The turbo speed is proportional to the exhaust output which is more related to the speed that the engine is converting fuel into exhaust gas.
A supercharger produces boost in direct proportion to engine speed because it is belt driven.
Since your car produces very, very little exhaust gas at idle, the turbo does not produce any boost. My 300zx had no sort of BOV and a completely mechanical wastegate, which was closed during idle. The turbo just doesn't push any air at idle. Much less than the engine could possibly pull in at 800 rpm. Thus you have a vacuum.
-Brad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (Brad_Jetta1.8T)

Thank you for the explanation Brad. I was trying to make it as basic and simple for everyone to understand but maybe my deductive reasoning is different than other peoples.
 

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Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (houstonspeedfreek)

I'm sorry but that still doesn't explain what happens when you let off the gas and metered air is released into the atmosphere... Or if it DOESN'T flush it - what happens to the compressor blade when it needs to go from 80K rpm to 0 in a milisecond...
I hate to sound like a nay-sayer but I do feel free to express my opinion just like everyone else is allowed to express theirs.
 

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Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (opinion914)

Exactly my point. If it shuts to not set off a CEL, what happens to the turbo. The last guy that did a tech breakdown of a BOV couldn't fill in the blanks, and the place that sold it was no help at all, telling people"it works, trust us"...
 

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Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (opinion914)

Jon a really simple way to show that you explanation can't hold water is when any item that's open post turbo side is open no matter when it's venting gasses OUTWARD. If you had a vaccume the Forge and Greddy units would be sucking air in at the outlets. I guess we could Vag-Com the wastegate frequency to see if it increases when you have your BOV closed. At idle anyone with a Greddy or other BOV can tell you, it will vent gasses outwards not suck in at the valve. So unless your wastegate is Opening much more to keep from pressurizing the post turbo side
 

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Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (Bug_Power)

Rodney, your not getting what I'm saying bro. The valve is shut at idle. The small nipple can have all the vacuum in the world on it but it will not open. There has to be boost present in the intake in order for the valve to blow off. Alec is the one that pointed this out to me. He put his hand over it at idle but if you blip the throttle, it will release air. Maybe I need to draw a diagram or something. Actually Rodney, I'll show you this weekend. The HKS is the only valve on the market that acts like that too.
 

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Re: Why the HKS BOV works and more testing.... (houstonspeedfreek)

I know what your saying it's that there is not any air coming out of it at idle. WHen I idle my car is at 15-20in/hg. it still blows air out. What your saying, or so I think, it that yours stays closed and doesn't vent off. What does your Boost guage read at idle? I'm pretty sure I know what your saying. I tightend down my Greddy so that it would be closed off at Idle, but it ended up being too strong and it wouldn't blow the air off correctly. It would close before it got all the way down to 10in/hg and would slightly rev the engine due to pushing air though the TB. I'll see you at Cafe East tomarrow and we can talk about it.
 
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