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GM Oil Life Monitor - Accurate?

8.6K views 31 replies 25 participants last post by  Saintor  
#1 ·
So after a discussion with a friend...

He says that this thing is a joke, and you're asking to get your engine grenaded if you follow its recommendations. When you reset the monitor in our Astra, it STARTS at 17,000 km oil life remaining, and runs down from there. Depending on driving habits, etc., we usually get 10k or more out of the oil using the monitor. I assume most GM vehicles operate the same way.

Manual says to follow the monitor. Friend says to change every 5-7k km, no ifs, ands or buts.

Thoughts? Maybe I should have put this in the 'Questions you're afraid to ask...' thread instead.
 
#17 ·
I disagree completely with this. From plenty of owners first had oil analysis reports posted on this site amongst others, it seems VW's oil change intervals are spot on. Not sure what you're using as your evidence as to why they're overstating the interval.

IMO it's posts like this that tend to lead to gross misinformation and cause even more clouded information out there.
 
#3 ·
I ignore the oil life indicator. I just change every 5000 miles.
 
#8 ·
i consider the monitor to be quite accurate. particularly on good, factory recommended oil.

i was doing my solstice (turbocharged and on a tune) at 10k with 25-30% oil life left. oil analysis showed i really was doing it early...pretty cool, eh?

the GM system uses an algorithm based on miles traveled, engine speeds, operating conditions, and distance of trips made. it has very little to do with the actual condition of the oil, however, it is VERY accurate. GM logged millions of test miles and thousands of oil analyses to nail this system down and it's one of the best features of their cars.

fun fact - GM calculates one hour of idling as 33 miles of driving for oil life...
 
#11 ·
:facepalm:

I'm inclined to agree with your friend.

Tell ya what. I'll send you periodic containers to your address (and your friend's) with prepaid shipping so you can mail me your 'used' oil. I'll be glad to take on the 'risk' of using your troubled oil.
 
#15 ·
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear- I follow the computer. I think it's a valid question though.

What's more interesting is that in vehicles that don't have this feature, people follow a set schedule that is much lower than anything I've gotten on the monitor in the Astra. I'm guessing that most cars could go 10k without a change and not have anything bad happen to them, no?
 
#12 ·
No offense P-Body, but these types of threads make me want to :banghead:. One of the biggest issues society has today is oil and a good majority of mature market car owners have been thoroughly duped by the Quick Oil Change industry which created the 3k mile oil change frequency.

Hmmmm... I wonder why they would suggest such a frequency. :rolleyes:

Before the advent of the computing power and sensory devices we have in cars for the last decade... automakers have had to make estimates based on broad variables... often with lots of safety factor. That was then.

Today? When man gets smarter or has the capability to be more efficient... he usually tries to. It's profitable and environmentally right and resource-friendly to be accurate... to be efficient. That's what tool like this do for us. And I'm sure GM isn't the only one with it today (I hope not.).

Do yourself a favor. Give the people who were tasked to develop and validate the product/process a chance. Chances are probably really high that their experience is far greater than your friend. :beer:
 
#19 ·
One of the biggest issues society has today is oil and a good majority of mature market car owners have been thoroughly duped by the Quick Oil Change industry which created the 3k mile oil change frequency.

Hmmmm... I wonder why they would suggest such a frequency. :rolleyes:
I don't know about thoroughly duped...I thought the frequency of oil changes to 3k miles was because of some cars that had severe sludging issues; like the earlier 1.8T engine in Audi/VWs and some other 4 cyl engines (was toyota one of them?)?
 
#13 · (Edited)
I started a thread about this a few years ago (EDIT, it was nearly 5 years ago!!): Oil Life Monitors - More Complex Than I Originally Thought

I basically posted something I had read at ls1gto.com...

ls1gto.com said:
One thing I can touch on and clear up.....the GM oil life monitor operation and my statement that ZDP (or ZDDP as you tend to call it here...most of the API literature just sticks to ZDP so I tend to use that) depletion is the basis for oil deterioration.

My spelling is poor but ZDP stands for zinc dialkyldithiophosphate which , as it sounds, is an anti-wear compound comprised of zinc and phosphorus.

ZDP is dispersed in the oil so as to be at a potential wear site if a surface asperity happens to break thru the oil film thickness causing the dreaded metal-to-metal contact. A molecule of ZDP must be present at that moment to prevent microwelding at the contact site which will cause material transfer, scuffing, scoring, wear and catostrophic failure. The concentration of ZDP in the oil will determine if there is ZDP present to work it's magic. The greater the concentration...the more likely a molecule of ZDP will be there...and vice versa.

By nature, ZDP is sacrifical. As ZDP is "used up" at a wear site to prevent micorwelding the concentration of ZDP decreases.... So...if you measure the ZDP concentration in engine oil in a running engine it will decrease at linear rate based on engine revolutions. Any given engine has a certain number of high potential wear areas where metal-to-metal contact could occur due to reduced film thickness and/or surface asperities....areas such as rubbing element cam followers, distributor gears, rocker arm pivots, push rod tips, etc...... The more of these areas the more ZDP depletion. The more often these features come in contact the greater the ZDP depletion. That is why, generally speaking, ZDP concentration in the oil, for any given engine, will decrease at a fairly linear rate when plotted versus cummulative engine revolutions. The more times it turns the more contact the more chance for wear the greater the depletion. This is as much of a fact as I could quote ever and is really not speculation or anything. It is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in many studies. That is why it is ONE of the basis for determining oil life remaining and why it is THE basic premis of the GM oil life algorithm. It is only ONE of the things that determines oil life...but it is the one thing that can be tied to engine operation in a linear fashion and estimated very accurately by accumulating engine revolutions via a counter.

The GM engine oil life monitor counts engine revolutions and accumulates the number for the basis of the oil life calculation. It then adds deterioration factors for operating temperature, start up temperature, soak times, ambient, coolant temperature, etc... There are a LOT of factors that "adjust" or affect the slope of the deterioration but the fundamental deterioration is traced back to the ZDP depletion that is inescapable with engine revolutions. The specific rate of ZDP depletion is readily measurable for any given engine so that is the fundamental item that is first calibrated for the oil life algorithm to tailor it specifically to that engine.

You would obviously like to get the oil out of the engine before the ZDP concentration gets so low that it is ineffective at being at the right place at the right time and preventing engine wear so that becomes the long term limit on oil life for that application.

The other things that determine oil life such a acid build up, oxidation, petane insuluables such as silicon from dust/dirt, carbon or soot build up from the EGR in blowby, water contamination, fuel contamination, etc.... are all modeled by the multipliers or deterioration factors that "adjust" the immediate slope of the line defined by the engine revolution counter as those items can be modeled in other ways and accounted for in the immediate slope of the ZDP depletion line.

The algorithm was developed over the course of many years by several lubrication experts at GM Fuels and Lubes, spearheaded by Doctor Shirley Schwartz who holds the patents (with GM) for the algorithm and the oil life montitor. I had the luck of working directly with Dr. Schwartz when the idea of the oil life monitor first progressed from the theoretical/lab stage to real world testing/development/validation. There were fleets of cars operated under all conditions that deteriorate the oil life for any and every reason and , thru oil sampling and detailed analysis of the oil condition, the algorithm was developed, fine tuned and validated to be the most accurate way invented yet to recommend an oil change interval by. As just one example, I have seen cars driven side-by-side on trips, one towing a trailer and one not, for instance, to prove the effectiveness of the oil life monitor in deteriorating the oil at a faster rate just because of the higher load, higher average RPM, higher temps, etc...and it works flawlessly.

The oil life monitor is so effective because: it is customized for that specific vehicle/engine, it takes everything into account that deteriorates the oil, it is ALWAYS working so as to take into account THAT INDIVIDUALS driving schedule, and it tailors the oil change to that schedule and predicts, on an ongoing basis, the oil life remaining so that that specific individual can plan an oil change accordingly. No other system can do this that effectively.

One thing is that I know personally from years of testing and thousands of oil analysis that the oil life algorithm works. There is simply no argument to the contrary. If you don't believe me, fine, but, trust me, it works. It is accurate because it has been calibrated for each specific engine it is installed on and there is considerable testing and validation of the oil life monitor on that specific application. NOt something that oil companies or Amsoil do. They generalize....the oil life monitor is very specific for that application.

Oil condition sensors in some BMW and Mercedes products are useful, also. They have their limitations, though, as they can be blind to some contaminates and can, themselves, be contaminated by certain markers or constituents of certain engine oils. Oil condition sensors can only react to the specific oil at that moment and they add complexity, cost and another potential item to fail. One other beauty of the GM oil life monitor is that it is all software and does not add any mechanical complexity, mass, wiring or potential failure mechanism.

There is considerable safety factor in the GM oil life monitor. Typically, I would say, there is a 2:1 safety factor in the slope of the ZDP depletion curve....in other words, zero percent oil life per the ZDP depletion is not zero ZDP but twice the concentration of ZDP considered critical for THAT engine to operate under all conditions reliably with no wear. This is always a subject of discussion as to just how low do you want the ZDP to get before the oil is "worn out" if this is the deciding factor for oil life. We would tend to be on the conservative side. If the oil life is counting down on a slope that would recommend a 10K change interval then there is probably 20K oil life before the ZDP is catostrophically depleted....not that you would want to go there...but reason why many people are successful in running those change intervals.

Please...NOT ALL ENGINES ARE THE SAME. The example above is an excellent practical justification of why you would want to add EOS and change the 15W40 Delvac in the muscle car at 3000 miles max and yet can run the Northstar to 12500 easily on conventional oil. You must treat each engine and situation differently and what applies to one does not retroactively apply to others. This is where Amsoil falls short in my book by proposing long change intervals in most everything if you use their oil. It just doesn't work that way. You can run the Amsoil to 12500 with no concerns whatsoever in the late model Northstar because even the oil life monitor tells you that for conventional oil off the shelf. Would I do that to the 502 in my 66 Chevelle...NO WAY. Amsoil says I can though. Wrong.

There are entire SAE papers written on the GM oil life monitor and one could write a book on it so it is hard to touch on all aspects of it in a single post. Hopefully we hit the high spots. Realize that a GREAT deal of time, work and energy went into developing the oil life monitor and it has received acclaim from engineering organizations, petroleum organizations, environmental groups all across the board. It is not some widget invented in a week and tacked onto the car.

The oil life monitor is not under the control of a summer intern at GM Powertrain per an earlier post....LOL Not that a summer intern wasn't compiling calibrations or doing a project on it but is under control of the lube group with a variety of engineers directly responsible that have immediate responsibility for the different engine families and engine groups. The idea that a summer intern was responsible for or handling the oil life monitor is ludicrous.....LOL LOL LOL "
per a GM engineer.
 
#14 ·
I have a 2002 Chevy Tahoe Z-71 with the 5.3 Liter flex fuel engine. I change my own oil and use 5w-30 full synthetic oil (Mobil 1 or Royal Purple) and a good filter (Mobil 1 or K&N). As synthetic oil uses much better oil stock, I change my oil every 2nd time my OLM tells me to change my oil. I'm guessing it's between 7,500 and 10,000 miles. Also, The Z-71 package adds an oil cooler.

As my truck takes 5 quarts of oil, the supplies for an oil change runs about $50. By doubling my oil change intervals I figure that I am coming out about even vs the lower cost of getting my oil changed at a quick lube shop, and using oil that is better for my engine. I usually add a quart of oil at about 5,000 miles as my truck burns some oil.

If I had a higher performance engine or a turbo charged engine I would probably change my oil every 5,000 miles as extra insurance. But I believe that the 3,000 mile oil change is a thing of the past as the synthetic oil we have these days is very good.
 
#18 ·
It's accurate enough for me, but I usually changed the oil before the car told me it was time. The reason I changed it early was because I was about to go on a long trip that would trip the sensor, so I changed it at home so I wouldn't have to do it while on my trip, or I changed it before various driving events.
 
#20 ·
I typically go with what the car tells me if I have the capability or the owners manual if I don't.

There are plenty of dealers however, that try to make as much money from the customer as possible and get them in for more frequent oil changes. It seems like the new tactic is to just tell customers that every 5k miles is what's required when in fact the owners manual clearly states at least 7500 miles. I would bet this is the dealers way of avoiding the hassle of explaining why they recommend 3k miles OCIs when most sources suggest it's not necessary with most modern oils, but still forcing people to spend more than they need to.

The dealer where I got my old GTI "conveniently" never changed the oil monitor to the 10k mile OCI on the maintenance reminder, so it would always go off every 5k miles.
 
#21 ·
Trust your oil monitor.

BMW has been using this kind of technology since 1999 with 12000+ oil changes with no engine problems. Mercedes embraced very long oil changes too. Porsche has up to 2 years oil changes now.

Don't worry. There is more in life to really worry about.
 
#30 ·
Popular Mechanics had a great article comparing "oil life monitors" between GM, BMW, and MB a few months ago.

In general, they said they all work great, but that GM's is a little less "advanced" than others, since it essentially just analyzing ZDDP depletion. If you had a coolant leak, or a dirty air filter for example, the monitor has no way of knowing.

Others, IIRC like MB use a magnetic type of technology that is actually checking the properties of the oil and can account for foreign substances.
 
#31 ·
Everyone has a "friend" with a grade 10 education who will tell you that if you don't change your oil every 2000km, use only some random oil brand imported from France, dump a bottle of snake oil into the engine, and get a voodoo witch doctor to bless your car, the engine won't make it to 100,000 miles.

GM has hundreds of very smart and highly educated engineers who are paid to develop, test, and implement systems like the oil life monitor.

I know who I'd trust.