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Got to get my facts straight... (Stock Camber adjustment)

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#21 ·
Most tire shop guys are not wheel alignment technicians. They are cookbookers. Meaning that they type the manufacturer, model, and model year into the alignment rack's computer, and the display tells them what to do. That's fine for many cars, even when the tire shop guys are Idiots. But, the information in some alignment machines is incorrect (at least for MKIII VWs). If you watch, the display screen states that the camber is not adjustable without the installation of camber bolts (or not adjustable at all).

That is where the tire shop guys are getting their incorrect information from.

They are tire shop guys. Like auto parts store guys (who only repeat back whatever the computer display says) mostly, they don't know much about cars, or wheel alignments (just whatever the alignment shop tells them to do).

If you want a good wheel alignment, you have to do it yourself, or go to a frame and alignment shop, and pay the price of having an experienced (older) frame and alignment experienced mechanic do the work.

I always suggest inspecting and replacing all worn front suspension components, (especially rubber like strut mounts, and lower control arm bushings), strut bearings, tierod ends, and balljoints, before you take the car in for a wheel alignment.
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
FV-QR

I paid cash

@germancarnut51 Should i even continue to dispute this with them? Or should i go ahead and do it myself. I feel cheated out of $60, but like you said i cant expect much from them. It also feels like they are trying to take advantage because im younger than most of them.


Ive got the car sitting on jack stands (by the control arms) and was getting preped to correct the alignment myself. I just dont make much money and hate feeling robbed.



As far as doing the alignment myself, i know for sure i can get the camber done perfectly, but the toe is what im confused about. How can i measure toe?
 
#23 ·
bagged_hag said:
You are right about the camber adjustment on the stock struts with the stock bolts. Most places that aren't Volkswagen specialty shops won't touch the camber on our cars. They will do toe and toe only. That's why I never get my car aligned anywhere else then my local VW shop.

Camber can be dialed in pretty well at home though, try setting some jackstands under the control arms on both sides to get the car sitting on it's own weight in the front and then use either a square to the ground or get a magnetic angle finder and measure the hub out to 0 degrees.

If you have the magnetic angle finder you can even go so far as to adjust it to a degree or two of negative if you so desire. It might not be 100% exact but it will certainly get you in the ballpark and increase your tire life substantially.
Click to expand...

I wish the shops in Miami were like that. I usually do my own alignments because I hate dealing with, "Your camber is out of spec." and "Your car is to low we can't do it/have to tax yo extra."
I'd ask them to leave the camber alone and they they'll set it close to 0 anyway.:banghead:

I like about -2 degrees up front.

OP, it was likely the difference in camber on the 2 sides or bad toe alignment that killed your tires. A little camber will cause a very minimal difference in tire wear between the inside and middle/outside of the tire if the toe is done well.
 
#24 ·
SlzzyDzzy said:
I paid cash

@germancarnut51 Should i even continue to dispute this with them? Or should i go ahead and do it myself. I feel cheated out of $60, but like you said i cant expect much from them. It also feels like they are trying to take advantage because im younger than most of them.


Ive got the car sitting on jack stands (by the control arms) and was getting preped to correct the alignment myself. I just dont make much money and hate feeling robbed.



As far as doing the alignment myself, i know for sure i can get the camber done perfectly, but the toe is what im confused about. How can i measure toe?
Click to expand...
You can set toe with a string. Here's a link that explained the process. If you have any questions, feel free to pm me.

For the record, i just did coils this weekend and went to align mine today in a parking garage. Since it's a Jersey car I was foiled by a seized tie-rod lock nut. Took it to 2 shops and got **** about height and camber. I'll just find a way to do it myself like on my old car.:thumbdown:

http://www.hummerknowledgebase.com/susp/string.html
 
#25 ·
If I were you, I'd go ahead and replace the worn parts in the front suspension, then do what someone else has already suggested.

Find a shop that can align the front end, get it done there, then go back to the first shop with the printout, show them that they were wrong, and again demand a refund.
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
germancarnut51 said:
If I were you, I'd go ahead and replace the worn parts in the front suspension, then do what someone else has already suggested.

Find a shop that can align the front end, get it done there, then go back to the first shop with the printout, show them that they were wrong, and again demand a refund.
Click to expand...
Well, paycheck doesnt come till saturday. Id have to ride it out till then, and then go about this plan.
 
#27 ·
I find that Placing the widowmaker Jack between the strut and inner fenderwell makes adjusting the camber much easier. When adjusting the toe I place the tires contact patch on pieces of plastic garbage bags. It allows the wheels to move freely without the friction of the tire on the ground.
 
#28 ·
germancarnut51 said:
If I were you, I'd go ahead and replace the worn parts in the front suspension, then do what someone else has already suggested.

Find a shop that can align the front end, get it done there, then go back to the first shop with the printout, show them that they were wrong, and again demand a refund.
Click to expand...
id suggest that you replace your front control arm bushings, the rear one is the one that needs to be pressed, but i did mine on a vise, i didnt personally, my buddy did but he said it was stupid easy, i was supposed too but couldnt enter the garage due to ins reasons. i got the tt solids HD from napa. 40 bucks for both sides

as for the alignment keep demanding your refund. i think on here in the mkiii forum there are alignment specs for our cars. exact specs..

as for an alignment on lowered cars i know les schwabs have some bays that are 100% flat, they come out of the floor. as for your camber you dont need the bolts, it can be adjusted to any spec you want. i run -50 degrees both sides, 1/16th toe 1/8th total toe.
 
#29 ·
csrgti said:
I find that Placing the widowmaker Jack between the strut and inner fenderwell makes adjusting the camber much easier. When adjusting the toe I place the tires contact patch on pieces of plastic garbage bags. It allows the wheels to move freely without the friction of the tire on the ground.
Click to expand...
Done the bag trick and it doesn't take much turning of the wheels to start putting holes in the bags.

I've found it's better to use two cheap 99 cent vinyl tiles for each wheel with a good dab of grease in between them.
 
#30 ·
Alingment

I took mine last week they did the aligment but they say that I need the Camber Bolts Kit to get it perfect. But thry wana rape u with doing this, I say just do what u can that I will finished up. Tomorrow I will go to the shop and do some stuff in my MKIII and Try to see if I can do it. :)
 
#31 ·
Unless you have some bent suspension components, you do not need camber bolts (and even then you should probably replace what is damaged instead). You can adjust the camber in TWO places on MKIIIs: the strut bolts AND the ball joint slider bolts. Adjusting these should be more than enough to get your camber correct.
 
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#32 ·
OddJobb said:
Unless you have some bent suspension components, you do not need camber bolts (and even then you should probably replace what is damaged instead). You can adjust the camber in TWO places on MKIIIs: the strut bolts AND the ball joint slider bolts. Adjusting these should be more than enough to get your camber correct.
Click to expand...
right, this^^^^and you will have a decent amount of adjustment if you want to run negative camber, or be zeroed out:thumbup:
 
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